Borewicz coat of arms

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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30 September 2011 15:53
 

My family coat of arms in most of Polish heraldic literature was described as PRUS I variation d .I was lucky enough to find a wax seal on archival documents of our estate and transform it into my personalized graphic version .Although not without mistakes smile

 
Mitya Ivanov
 
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Mitya Ivanov
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01 October 2011 01:27
 

Wow! Great, Anna! One more Prus that deserves Mr. Sh. paintbrush:)

...

I’m sure the supporter is a ‘usual’ lion. And I beleive the crown’s teeth (I mean these big ones) are leaves - i.e. they do not consist of three pearls each as it is shown on the seal).

Fleur-de-lis Or in Argent - why not?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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01 October 2011 07:40
 

I do not believe the fleur-de-lis shown is Or on Argent but Or on very pastel Azure.  Compare the field of that upper sinister quarter with the color of the eagle in the upper dexter and you will see a noticeable difference.

Why the printer or artist would use two different shades of Azure is beyond me, "bleu celeste" having little or no historical basis other than as a color to represent the sky itself.

 
Mitya Ivanov
 
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Mitya Ivanov
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01 October 2011 08:11
 

Dear Joseph, von Roenne sinister part under the fleur-de-lis is REALLY Argent. At least it is shown like this in Klingspor’s "Baltisches Wappenbuch’.

http://sovet.geraldika.ru/images/for/093.jpg

One more source - here: http://www.v-roenn.de/Chronic1/Chronic2d/Chronik_D_VR197_206.pdf

"Das gдnzlich abgeдnderte freiherrliche Wappen (Tafel 50) nach dem polnischen Diplome vom Jahre 1732 hat einen

gespaltenen Schild, mit goldenem SchildfuЯ, darin zwei blaue Querstrцme.

Vorn in Roth ein auswдrtssehender, goldbewehrter silberner Adler (der Polnische Adler !); hinten in Silber eine goldene Lilie.

Auf dem gekrцnten Helme drei StrauЯenfedern, roth / gold / silbern.

Decken: rothsilbern / blaugolden.

 

Anna, have you ever been interested in this? http://www.v-roenn.de/Chronic1/Chronic2e/chronic2e.html

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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01 October 2011 08:24
 

Mitya Ivanov;88094 wrote:

Wow! Great, Anna! One more Prus that deserves Mr. Sh. paintbrush:)

...

I’m sure the supporter is a ‘usual’ lion. And I beleive the crown’s teeth (I mean these big ones) are leaves - i.e. they do not consist of three pearls each as it is shown on the seal).

Fleur-de-lis Or in Argent - why not?


I am ready to pay a substantial amount of money hold in my hands a real masterpiece by Mr. Sh. Love his mantlings smile

If you say it’s a lion it must be it and it’s true that a typical crown in our heraldry has three fleurions but in some western countries the combination of three pearls can be found.Since the baroness had German ancestors maybe it was somehow marked in this way or just poorly produced .Surprisingly , both are sharing the same crest of three ostrich feathers.

As for the fleur-de-lis ...it would be perfectly correct to have it Or on Azure , but the seal itself as we can see doesn’t show this. Isn’t it a golden rule of heraldry not to put metal on metal? The other photo is from the ‘standarized’ version of armorial containing almost 4000 coats of arms.

Argent is everywhere displayed as slightly grey to differentiate it from a white background.

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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01 October 2011 08:29
 

Mitya Ivanov;88106 wrote:

Dear Joseph, von Roenne sinister part under the fleur-de-lis is REALLY Argent. At least it is shown like this in Klingspor’s "Baltisches Wappenbuch’.

http://sovet.geraldika.ru/images/for/093.jpg

One more source - here: http://www.v-roenn.de/Chronic1/Chronic2d/Chronik_D_VR197_206.pdf

"Das gдnzlich abgeдnderte freiherrliche Wappen (Tafel 50) nach dem polnischen Diplome vom Jahre 1732 hat einen

gespaltenen Schild, mit goldenem SchildfuЯ, darin zwei blaue Querstrцme.

Vorn in Roth ein auswдrtssehender, goldbewehrter silberner Adler (der Polnische Adler !); hinten in Silber eine goldene Lilie.

Auf dem gekrцnten Helme drei StrauЯenfedern, roth / gold / silbern.

Decken: rothsilbern / blaugolden.

 

Anna, have you ever been interested in this? http://www.v-roenn.de/Chronic1/Chronic2e/chronic2e.html


Yes , I know this publication and I marked the link but for some reasons it didn’t want to open but now I can view it. Thank you !

 
Mitya Ivanov
 
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Mitya Ivanov
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01 October 2011 08:35
 

"...the baroness had German ancestors maybe it was somehow marked in this way or"

No reasons, no ways:) The Swedish baronial coronet has MORE gems between it’s ‘main’ teeth (piles of 3 gems).

"just poorly produced"

Right! Too usual mistake to mean more than a mistake.

 

"Isn’t it a golden rule of heraldry not to put metal on metal?"

Huh, ain’t we know many hundreds excerpts off (and ‘official violations’ of) this rule throughout all European armories - especially Eastern-European?

Yes, we know.

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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01 October 2011 08:41
 

It still doesn’t operate under Firefox smile

 
Mitya Ivanov
 
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Mitya Ivanov
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01 October 2011 08:44
 

‘maybe some rules are meant to be broken’

Not by me:) I respect those ‘mistakes’ that are more than 150 years old. And I respect royal will:)

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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01 October 2011 18:48
 

Basically the same but better said and gives you a comfortable feeling of being correct smile

 
Jeff Poole
 
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Jeff Poole
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02 October 2011 03:02
 

Or on Argent is not that uncommon in Germanic Heraldry. I had a long discussion with Michael Waas on this subject when my own arms were being differenced and registered in Germany as I was concerned that this historical aspect of my Father’s Arms was incorrect, but Michael assured me it was acceptable especially for secondary charges such as my faced half-moon on the Bend.

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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02 October 2011 05:06
 

The use of tinctures was freer in the past when simple charges placed on the shields shone thanks to the strong contrasting colors used and it seem that there were no restrictions.

To illustrate that ,once again a page from ‘Aromrial √©questre de la Toison d’Or et de l’Europe’ with some Polish arms from 1st half of the 15th century.

First to the left in the second row is NIESOBIA coat of arms and as we can see Or is placed upon Argent field.

 

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6203172410_ca3da8f9e2.jpg

 
ninest123
 
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ninest123
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09 October 2018 23:34
 
 
ninest123