.https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531164_420648837974082_26111494_n.jpg
here are the proposed Arms of the Anglican Franciscan, Third Order Regular of the BVM. developed by committee looking to find any errors and a proper blazon, it has been too long since i’ve even made an attempt at a blazon
Why the fess consisting of what is essentially the flag of the Republic of Georgia?
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/ge.gif
We shouldn’t be doing extensive design work in the non-members’ area of the forums, but I’d say this needs a lot of revision before you even think about blazoning. I’d suggest a careful look at Pierre de Chaignon la Rose’s 1907 critique of American ecclesiastical heraldry on our AHS website, http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Documents.LaRose, particularly the second section entitled "Diocesan Arms."
the fess contains the dexter half of the flag of our primatial see, as our canons prohibit the use of the sinister half. also keep in mind that most regulations concerning ecclesiastical heraldry come from rome or the episcopal church to which regretfully at times our canons specifically differ.
friarbrett;94634 wrote:
...developed by committee…
This almost never leads to good heraldry.
friarbrett;94638 wrote:
the fess contains the dexter half of the flag of our primatial see, as our canons prohibit the use of the sinister half. also keep in mind that most regulations concerning ecclesiastical heraldry come from rome or the episcopal church to which regretfully at times our canons specifically differ.
The only regulations concerning ecclesiastical heraldry that come from Rome or the Episcopal Church have to do with external ornaments like keys, croziers, miters, and the like. The composition of the shield is governed by purely heraldic custom.
Kenneth Mansfield;94642 wrote:
This almost never leads to good heraldry.
i agree i have been fighting tooth and nail you should of seen the earlier designs, Tincture violations out the kazoo. I dont even know if i can get them to do any better than this, as the only person with any heraldry experiance, they gave me somewhat of a veto power as long as the Episcopal Visitor agrees. the CoA of the Friars minor (chief) is mandatory, and they insist on references to the communion and to our lady.
friarbrett;94651 wrote:
i agree i have been fighting tooth and nail you should of seen the earlier designs, Tincture violations out the kazoo. I dont even know if i can get them to do any better than this, as the only person with any heraldry experiance, they gave me somewhat of a veto power as long as the Episcopal Visitor agrees. the CoA of the Friars minor (chief) is mandatory, and they insist on references to the communion and to our lady.
also if I had my way we would just slightly modifiy the arms used by the roman TOR that is with the franciscan arms in chief the crown of thorns in fess and the nails of the crucifixion and the initials "OPC" in the base, one must also remember this is not a new coat of arms but an evolution of the TOR arms for a new branch of the family.
Joseph McMillan;94643 wrote:
The only regulations concerning ecclesiastical heraldry that come from Rome or the Episcopal Church have to do with external ornaments like keys, croziers, miters, and the like. The composition of the shield is governed by purely heraldic custom.
This is true and it is an important point. NO canons regulate the design on the shield so you can’t appeal to that argument. This design is still trying to look too much like the RC arms of the TOR Franciscans. If the Franciscan symbol in chief is supposed to be on a chief then the chief needs to be smaller. Also, you can’t place a black cross on a blue field. The cross needs to be gold or silver.
Why not have the lower two thirds of the shield be composed of the flag with a Marian symbol on an inescutcheon or roundel overall? It would look better than trying to replicate the tripartite division of the shield used by the RC TORs.
gselvester;94662 wrote:
Why not have the lower two thirds of the shield be composed of the flag with a Marian symbol on an inescutcheon or roundel overall? It would look better than trying to replicate the tripartite division of the shield used by the RC TORs.
I like gist of this idea, Fr. Guy. And why not simplify it even more by making the cross nowy putting the Marian symbol in the center of that?
friarbrett;94651 wrote:
as the only person with any heraldry experiance
The problem with a design-by-committee is that the committeemen invariable attempt to have a hand in the design itself.
Instead, the committee should express to the expert (you) what they’d like to be symbolized in the arms.
Then, it is up to the herald-in-residence (you) to draw from his (or her) knowledge and come up with a couple of designs from which the committee would select.
Of course, a brief back-and-forth period might occur, but the pen should always remain in the hand of the herald.
whereas they came up with designs and had me try to "fix" them.
well thanks to some much needed help I think I have found a design that the other friars and His Grace will accept. Thanks to those who provided positive input, you know who you are.
my only concern remains how to blazon the chosen arms
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/292450_213390642119985_1153403304_n.jpg
