Hi all,
I’ve been working on the genealogy of my patrilineal line, which is from Sweden. I came across a man named Johan Docken, who may or may not be my 6xgreat grandfather. I’ve always assumed that all of my ancestors were farmers and peasants, but I stumbled upon a website that may suggest that Johan was a major and married a woman named Charlotta von Becker (who looks to have been the daughter of a baron/major general): http://www.brittstromback.se/Html/0001/704.htm
I know nothing of the Swedish language, Swedish genealogy or Swedish heraldic traditions. I may be misunderstanding the text of the website, or the website may be full of faulty information, and perhaps I’m not even related to Johan Docken. But the thought that perhaps one of my patrilineal ancestors used burgher arms has surprised me.
The odds are against it, but if he was armigerous, I wonder what I should do. Use the ancestral arms? Use the arms I’ve been using for almost 20 years? Combine the two designs? What would you do if you adopted/were granted/matriculated arms, but then found out that your ancestor was armigerous? Any and all comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!
Cheers,
My immediate reaction is that the first thing that you need to do is to firm up the genealogical aspects. I assume that there was a name change to Nelson at some point and if the genealogy was proven you would be a male line descendant of Johan Docken.
If the genealogy is wrong, or there is insufficient information to prove descent, then your heraldic "problem" goes away. If it is correct then you need to find out if he had arms. A quick look in Rietstap shows nothing for Docken. If he was not armigerous then, once again the "problem" isn’t there.
Only if both prove true do you even need to think about the heraldic consequences. My first thought would be "Are the ancestral arms any good?" For example if I suddenly discovered that I was a male line descendant of Robert Dinwiddie (LR i/142, 1751) I’d probably decide to keep my existing arms. If however, they appeal to you, there are various options. I’d first get a right to them accepted in Sweden (if such is possible). I assume you are also talking to the Swedish Heraldry Society who will be able to guide you on that. Given that your existing arms are a Spanish certification, matriculated in Lyon Court and the Spanish system seems to be in abeyance at the moment, it probably wouldn’t do any harm to talk to Lyon Court. However I’d advise doing that only when you know that you have something to talk to them about, which takes me back to my original two points.
First prove the genealogy.
Second find out whether he had arms.
Only when both of those come back positive do you need to think about the heraldic consequences.
James
Do you have any indication that Johan Docken used burgher arms? If he did, it was probably as a part of a seal and if so the tinctures have most likely never been defined. To use such a coat of arms, there is need for som adaptation to heraldic standards.
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First prove the genealogy.
Second find out whether he had arms.
Only when both of those come back positive do you need to think about the heraldic consequences.
James
Thanks for the good advice James. After my initial post I discovered that the website I was looking at took the family line down another generation closer to myself…to a man named Hans Petter Docken: http://www.brittstromback.se/Html100409/index.htm?/Html100409/000/0003/785.htm
The details seem to confirm what I have in my family papers…not enough to be sure, but enough for me to think about hiring a professional genealogist to sort this out.
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Do you have any indication that Johan Docken used burgher arms? If he did, it was probably as a part of a seal and if so the tinctures have most likely never been defined. To use such a coat of arms, there is need for some adaptation to heraldic standards.
Hi Jens,
No I haven’t been able to find information that Johan Docken used any arms…just my brain jumping ahead of the evidence. Thanks for the advice!
Sebastian,
I understand that at this point we’re talking hypotheticals, but is it significant that your surname is Nelson and not Docken? My brother-in-law is Swedish, and I gather that surnames worked a little different there, but does the convention that arms follow the name apply?
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Sebastian,
I understand that at this point we’re talking hypotheticals, but is it significant that your surname is Nelson and not Docken? My brother-in-law is Swedish, and I gather that surnames worked a little different there, but does the convention that arms follow the name apply?
Hi David,
Good question. I don’t know if arms in Sweden pass down the paternal line with or without regard for surnames.
I’ll be very interested in what you discover, and if there’s a decision involved, in what you decide.
I’m in a position that’s almost a mirror image of yours. I invented arms for myself when I was maybe 11 or 12, then discovered my paternal arms soon after. Later, I changed to using my mother’s maiden name and so also changed to using her Swedish family’s assumed arms (but with a change of crest).
The past few years I’ve been talking to members of the Swedish Heraldry Society (of which I’m also a member), as well as to several Swedish heraldic artists. I’m thinking I would like to register my arms with the Skandinavisk Vapenrulla.
Universally, they are telling me (1) do not even think about registering the arms I designed as a kid, even if I like them better, (2) get rid of the crest for difference, despite a registration in South Africa, (3) treat all intervening variations and registrations of both my paternal and maternal arms as just enthusiastic silliness, and (4) register my maternal grandfather’s arms without further difference.
Each person I’ve talked to has been clear that these are only their personal opinions, not a rule, and that I’ve free to do as I like provided I don’t infringe on another family’s arms. Still, I’m struck by the fact that there is not even a minor dissent among the many experts I’ve talked to.
What counts most with each of them is (1) my grandfather’s arms are the oldest of the various options, even though I can’t prove their use before about 1918, and (2) for non-noble arms, modern Swedish principles of strict gender equality apply—if I use the name, then those arms are the only serious option.
I’m still dithering because I recognize good advice when I hear it, but I still prefer my own design 
Hi all,
I was reading about Swedish heraldry online, and I was wondering if someone might be able to help me answer a question. It appears that personal heraldry for non-nobles is unregulated, but that individuals can register their arms with private organizations like the Swedish Heraldry Society, which will then publish the arms in their Skandinavisk Vapenrulla/Scandinavian Roll of Arms.
Does anyone know what Swedish organization(s), if any, one should register or publish their descent from a Swedish armiger in before using/registering ancestral arms? Like, in England, some descendants of recipients of grants of arms may choose to register a pedigree with the College of Arms first before using those arms.
I’ve read about the Svenska Släktkalendern (the Swedish Family Register) online. According to their website, they began "in 1885 and contains today 46 volumes…any family of Swedish origin or living in Sweden is welcome to be published in Svenska Släktkalendern" http://www.svenskaslaktkalendern.se/#english
Hypothetically speaking, if I were able to document my descent from a Swedish armiger, I wonder what best practices one should follow before using those arms.
Many thanks!
Yes, personal heraldry is unregulated in Sweden. You could actually use the arms of a municipality or even the arms of H.M. the King himself as your personal arms, without the risk of facing any legal actions (as long as you are not using them commercially). But then there are always social sanctions ... . The heraldry of the nobility rests on a long tradition but is in practice without legal protection today.
In Sweden there are mainly two ways to make your personal/family arms known to the public (or at least to the heraldry community).
1. You can register the arms in the Swedish Register of Arms. The register is a non-governmental, non-profit undertaking and is run by the Swedish Heraldry Society in collaboration with the Swedish National Committee for Genealogy and Heraldry. The Swedish Collegium of Arms, a committee under the Swedish Heraldry Society, is responsible for the administration and operation of the register.
2. You can have your arms published in the Scandinavian Roll of Arms (Skandinavisk Vapenrulla). Scandinavian Roll of Arms is common for all the Nordic countries. Nowdays it is run by Societas Heraldica Scandinavica.
Unless you claim the right to a noble coat of arms, there is no need for you to register och publish your decent from a Swedish armiger before registering och publishing the arms. The Swedish Collegium of Arms or the editorial staff of the Scandinavian Roll of Arms will review your ancestry if deemed necessary.
jcb;98621 wrote:
In Sweden there are mainly two ways to make your personal/family arms known to the public (or at least to the heraldry community).
Jens, thank you very much for this. Based on your note, I have updated the AHS page on heraldic registration in Sweden, http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Registration.Foreign#toc25. I’d welcome any comments or corrections.
Svenska Heraldiska Föreningen (Swedish Heraldry Society) will also publish new arms of members in its magazine Vapenbilden at no charge.
Publication in Vapenbilden is an "announcement", not a registration. It does not mean that the Society has approved the arms:
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My first thought would be "Are the ancestral arms any good?" For example if I suddenly discovered that I was a male line descendant of Robert Dinwiddie (LR i/142, 1751) I’d probably decide to keep my existing arms.
What were Robert Dinwiddie’s arms? Are they unattractive?
snelson;98658 wrote:
What were Robert Dinwiddie’s arms? Are they unattractive?
You’ll find them in the roll of Early American Arms.
James
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You’ll find them in the roll of Early American Arms.
Holy cow!
snelson;98661 wrote:
Holy cow!
Nope, that’s one thing that’s not included, unless it’s used for the crest.
James