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The post in short would have read: The policy of AHS is that American citizens not use supporters and other nobiliary additaments. That’s the policy here - you don’t have to agree with it, but could we please stop chasing around Robin’s barn about it?

Patrick, I love how absolutely eloquent you are!

Seriously though, the AHS is in the process of adopting a policy that basically states that you can do whatever you want, however supporters and other "nobilary additaments" should not be used unless you are titled nobility.

Take it or leave it…it doesn’t matter to me. I actually enjoy reading these opposing viewpoints, however this thread has beaten this bloody horse to a pulp, brought it back to life and beaten it until it was dead again! That, and some post have become downright rude.

There will always be some who believe that anyone who wants to may use supporters and there will be those who oppose it. I personally like the idea of using supporters with my arms but I will not out of respect to some prominent heraldic traditions.

Take care,

Mohamed,
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Because, to be honest, most people who want supporters want them because of the association (consciously or subconsiously) of them with nobility. But I won’t get into the psyche of armigers right now, I’ll leave that to another time!

I disagree. Most armigers in America are new to heraldry (not generational successors to the arms) and simply see them in the images of arms provided in many of the heraldry books they find in the library. I do agree there are some who would want them because they fancy themselves as nobles even though they are not. Indeed there are those of us who like them for their artistic presentation however.

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And yes, we all know how once upon a time, they were decorative space fillers. Well, once upon a time, it was perfectly normal to walk around carrying a sword. But that doesn’t mean you can walk around in public, sword at side, and tip your hat to startled passers-by!

Just as a FYI in Colorado you can still walk around with a firearm (handgun or rifle) as long as it is open (not concealed) and holstered (handgun). I don’t know about a sword, but I suspect that would be legal. Now that doesn’t apply to courthouses and schools and other places like that, but you are otherwise free to walk around with a weapon as long as it’s clearly visible. But, I get your point.

Patrick, yes I am in the camp who rejects the ‘nobles only’ argument and supports the ‘they once were used for decoration’ argument. Yet, I am also not using them. So, while I reject the argument against their use, I personally reject their use but I also wouldn’t take kindly to anyone telling me I could not without any sort of legitimate (legal) authority so to speak.

Dave,
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I am not a member of the AHS, simply a participant on this forum who will soon find himself unwelcome, if your response and underlying sentiments to my comments are a reflection of the attitude of membership toward me. Out of pure curiosity, how can you disagree so vehemently with my written words if you cannot, through your own admission, understand them?

I know Patrick and I don’t think he is either ignorant or mean-spirited. I think, however, he may have misunderstood your point on ‘bastardization’. That’s all. I also don’t think anyone is asking you to leave…I’m not…but I don’t read it in the other responses either. Heated arguments are fine. Most of the time they are fruitful. Sometimes they go overboard. And believe you me I’ve been on both sides of both of those possibilities. And I don’t see that here yet…if I did I’d be the first to get my Irish up and go off. So, don’t think anyone wants you to leave because you disagree with the status quo of the majority here on this issue.

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Joseph’s document regarding the use of heraldry in America is a fine document that obviously took considerable time, thought and research to compose. I have no objection with the document itself but rather with the legalistic rigidity in which his sound advice is held by some.

*emphasis mine* This is my main concern as well. Some will see these best practices as a zero sum declaration. I do not. I don’t think Joe does either. Nor many here. But you are right in that there are some who see it and support it and do so in a very rigid legalistic manner. That is a shame…but it is their shame.

Donnchadh wrote:

Just as a FYI in Colorado you can still walk around with a firearm (handgun or rifle) as long as it is open (not concealed) and holstered (handgun). I don’t know about a sword, but I suspect that would be legal.

*offtopic*

I don’t think so, If i remember correctly to carry a knife with longer than a 4" blade requires a permit in CO, i think a sharpened sword would fall into that category.

*ontopic*

Just so everyone knows some of us really enjoy this dead horse beating. I am fairly new to this society and so i have missed the supporter wars, but I see people still bringing up valid new points right and left.

Yes most everything that needs to be said has been said but I think David (and others) made some points that I hadn’t seen before. It’s good to have all points of view out there, and it’s good to revisit arguments from time to time so to catch all us new enthusiests up to speed. Then the scientist in me enjoys good spirited well argued debate

For the record I lean slightly in the "Use supporters" camp. I guess the debate is that when the Founding fathers got rid of nobility did they say no one can be noble or is everyone noble?  I like to think everyone is (or at least starts) noble and loses it from there. but that’s my 2cents

*OT*

I’m not so sure Colin. I’ve worn my ‘Buck’ on my belt into the DOW in north Denver, into multiple King Soopers and Albertons, into Dave Cooks/Gart Sports/Sports Authority, into Wal-Mat, & into many a restaurant in the six county metro area as well as mountain towns. Not to mention wearing it walking down public streets in the same areas. This blade is larger than the 4” and even the times I’ve seen troopers, policemen and security guards I’ve never had a hassle one. Is it a sword? No. But, it is not so anal (strict) here yet on wiping out such things…though with ever more transplants into this state bringing with them their own ideals/ideas including prejudices it may not last. 8)