Upon the recommendation of another one of our members, I am opening a thread in the members area to explain a bit, some of my questions may be confusing some of the members based on the surname listed in my profile.
A brief explanation I am also open to tincture recommendations (or any other thought you may have).
Oh - a question also - in the blazon below, if the charges and Ordinary are the same color, is it correct to list the tincture last as "all argent" or is it better heraldry to list the tincture after the ordinary and "of the last" be placed after the charges?
*Rose main with elephant as crest ideas -
Gules, on a chevron, between three roses barbed and seeded all Argent
Gules, dexter tierce, per pale 3 roses barbed and seeded all Argent
*Elephant w/ tower main with Rose as crest ideas -
Gules, an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower all proper, within a bordure Argent
Gules, an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower all proper, in chief two barrulets Argent
If any of the above are current or known COA either base or design, please let me know so that I can remove them. They are completely unintentional.
Respectfully,
Terry
I know my blazon is not very good, so I have attempted to due images of what I am trying to refer too. I know…it is clipartish
Gules, on a chevron, between three roses barbed and seeded all Argent
http://omega1.us/personal/chev-coat.jpg
Gules, dexter tierce, per pale 3 roses barbed and seeded all Argent
http://omega1.us/personal/tiercegif.gif
Gules, an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower all proper, within a bordure Argent
http://omega1.us/personal/Bordure.jpg
Gules, an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower all proper, in chief two barrulets Argent
Wow, Terry. Quite a bit to look at here.
1. Gules on a chevron between three roses Argent barbed and seeded proper. It’s a fairly good bet that this one has been used elsewhere and by someone quite prominent.
2. Gules a dexter tierce per pale 3 roses Argent barbed and seeded proper. This is different. And if the roses are per pale, then they will be in the center of the shield, I think, not in the center of the Gules portion (and in my opinion that will also give it a little more balance).
3. Gules an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower proper within a bordure Argent. Why the bordure? You know, a bordure is so tied in most heraldists minds with Scottish differencing that you may spend a lot of time explaining it. Unless it is Scottish cadency or you have a really powerful reason for wanting a bordure ...
4. Gules an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower proper bars gemel enhanced Argent . This is striking, interesting and in all probability unique.
Your use of the word ‘all’ is superfluous here, I think. We read until we get to a color. Everything from the last color to the next one is the same. I’ve changed your blazons to reflect what I believe to be better, but there are those much more adept at blazon than I who will chime in.
Hi Patrick,
Thank you for your feedback. Yeah, kind of a lot to look at here, I have been busy.
I also think the 4th one is unique also. It has a way of kind of standing out…well, at least to me.
Respectfully,
Terry
Bars gemel are two barrulets set in close proximity. Enhanced moves them up to the top of the field.
The first coat you presented made me think of Duncan almost immediately.
I like the second one, to me at least it has a better feel. More true to very simplistic heraldry IMO (and that’s a good thing).
Gules, an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower all proper, within a bordure Argent
I do not understand the point of the border, are you the second son or are you the representative of a cadet branch of your family. In British, Irish and French heraldry have specific meanings as they often do in Spanish and Portuguese heraldry.
The barrulets on the next version of the elephant arms reminds me of the shoulder insignia of a US Navy Leiutenant.
If the elephant is Proper does this mean that it is greyish as would be the tower? Why is the caparision not blazoned Azure? I am certain that the elephant and tower combination can be coloured in a manner that will be unique, thus making the need to clutter up the field with a border or barrulets pointless.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but as a member of the Chequey club, why did you choose to remove them?
I certainly think they could be added to option 2 (and if you don’t want blue and white, black and white or blue and gold would look nice as well)
I certainly like the roses in the center with the tierced shield though
Of the proposed designs, I think I like best the one with the dexter tierce and the three roses centered. I believe, however, that they should be blazoned as "in pale" rather than "per pale." "Per pale" designates a vertical division; "in pale" a vertical arrangement.
While the dexter tierce is interesting, it does seem a bit bland and "inexplicable." One thought that crossed my mind was to make the tierce checky Or and Vert, picking up the accent colors of the roses ("barbed and seeded proper" means "barbed Vert and seeded Or").
Another thought was to place the roses on the tierce. Perhaps: Checky Or and Vert on a dexter tierce Gules three roses Argent barbed and seeded proper.
In any of these, I’d consider using the elephant in the crest with a checky caparison.
Terry,
What about combining many of your above elements into something uniquely yours, but aesthetically pleasing such as:
Gules a chevron chequey Argent and Azure fimbriated Or between in chief two roses Argent barbed Vert and seeded Or and in base a an elephant statant bearing on it’s back a tower Argent and caparisioned Azure
The chevron chequey Ar. and Az. fimbriated Or would leave the Or and checks of the Stuarts. The roses in cheif and the elephant in base would balance each other out. The chevron would leave room for the tower on the elephant’s back that any other charge would not.
Just my 2ยข.
Take care,
I like 2 & 4, so may I suggest a combination?
Gules 3 roses in pale Argent barber and seeded proper; a dexter tierce barry of six Argent and Gules
or
Gules 3 roses in pale Argent barber and seeded proper; a dexter tierce Gules charged with 3 bars Argent
Terry;53284 wrote:
http://omega1.us/personal/tierce.gif
As a fan of symmetry, I see this and wonder why not the following?
Argent, on a pale Gules three roses of the field, barbed and seeded proper.
Had my laptop not perished, I would have thrown together a clipart version of the arms.
The tierce is definitely distinctive. But it seems that without a compelling reason for it (some family history of being right-brained or right-winged or having an ancestor who fought on the right bank of the Seine or what not), a one-sided tierce is immediately off-putting. I like that it’s different, but without explanation it may be more off-putting than you want…
The pale might be a good solution in terms of that but of course it immediately strikes the different-ness of the tierce. I guess it’s a catch-22. You can be pretty sure it’s unique and different that way, but it might be *too* unique. If there was a good story to match it it would be perfect, though!
Thoughts, probably not useful ones.
Any other unique assymmetrical divisions out there not often/never seen?
Kyle=
What about using flauches?
Kyle MacLea;53318 wrote:
... a one-sided tierce is immediately off-putting. I like that it’s different, but without explanation it may be more off-putting than you want…
I would have to respectfully disagree. I personally don’t find asymmetry in any way visually displeasing, or off-putting. It’s also sure to avoid duplication of a fairly simple design.
The more I think about the blazon of this, I think if you want the flowers in the middle, rather than off to the side (like in your first rendition), it might be best to be more explicit.
Gules a dexter tierce Argent, over all three roses in pale Argent barbed and seeded proper
I also still like:
Gules a dexter tierce Gules charged with three (or two) bars Argent, over all three roses in pale Argent barbed and seeded proper
I’ll try to post a visual of this tonight.