Arms and Armor

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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11 February 2007 00:29
 

A while back I promised I’d try to post some pictures of the chain maille that I made a few years ago.  I worked on the hauberk for a year or so on and off.  It’s a very tedious task to take on, but I’m pleased with the results and it fits me perfectly.  The one thing with armor is if it doesn’t fit just right, it’ll either hinder your movements or won’t provide the right protection.  The first image is the whole hauberk, the second is a closeup of the rings, the third is my hauberk with my gorget and spaulders and finally my whole set along with my sword.  On a side note, the sword is very special to me, as it was my first Christmas present from my wife.  Even way back then she knew what she was getting into!;)

Hauberk

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t315/avidal2/HPIM0542.jpg

 

Close up (rings are 3/16 inner diameter and made of 17 gauge galv.steel)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t315/avidal2/HPIM0543.jpg

 

Hauberk with Gorget and Spaulders

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t315/avidal2/HPIM0544.jpg

 

Hauberk with Gorget, Spaulders and Sword

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t315/avidal2/HPIM0545.jpg

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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11 February 2007 00:44
 

Absolutely fantastic! I really like the sword too, very simple, and very, IMO, Arthurian/Tolkienesque (for lack of a better word, Legendary). The chain mail is very nice. Did you also make the gorget and spaulders? I wonder if any insignia, heraldic or otherwise, was ever displayed on a spaulder, and be like the ancestor of modern epualets. I think I read something like that somewhere, but I can’t be too sure!

Are you in the SCA, or any other re-enactment/historical groups?

 

Regards,

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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11 February 2007 00:53
 

Thank you!  No, I didn’t make the gorget or spaulders, those I had to buy.  I’d like to try my hand at it tho, but the tools needed to start working metal like that are a little out of my reach at the moment.

I go to the PA Renaissance Faire every year, but I don’t dress for it nor do I participate with the SCA.  My love of heraldry developed from my first love, medieval/Elizabethan history.  I have a collection of five swords including the one shown here.  I have them arranged on the wall around my framed ACH Registration with the armor displayed beneath.

 

I don’t know if they ever engraved their arms on their armor, but I do know that they would have them displayed on their shield and banner (pennon).  And depending on the time period their surcoat would have their arms represented.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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11 February 2007 01:02
 

Very cool.

I currently have a collection of two whole daggers wink. I hope to acquire more eventually, as swords are one of the things I am very interested in. I dunno why, but the mere shape of a sword symbolizes to me, nobility.

 

My daggers are: One that I got in Egypt from a market sellign traditional antiques/souvenirs. It is brass, and curved, like traditional Arabic "khanjars". It is a golden brass, and engraved all over with floral motifs, and, if I remember correctly, lions’ heads. The handle ends in a lotus flower in ancient Egyptian style. The other one is of Chinese manufacture, and is in a very beautiful scabard that is brown, patterned like marble, and adorned at the top and bottom with golden floral patterns. The dagger itself has the same ornamentation and the blade has a Chinese dragon motif etched on it. The handle has a large blue (glass) stone on it. I have some pictures, I can post them if you are interested. I hope it’s not Off Topic, since I have been doing more than my fair share of getting off topic on this forum recently!

 

Regards,

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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11 February 2007 11:31
 

Andrew,

Great hauberk!!!  What sort of acton (from Arabic kotyn, or cotton) or gamebson do you wear beneath the maille?


Andrew J Vidal wrote:

I don’t know if they ever engraved their arms on their armor, but I do know that they would have them displayed on their shield and banner (pennon).  And depending on the time period their surcoat would have their arms represented.


"Ailettes, ailets: (Fr. "little wings") small square shields applied to the shoulders commonly worn during the 13th century. Commonly worn by crusaders. They were often painted with a heraldic device; the last reference I was able to locate was from 1313 when Piers Gaveston wore a pair covered in pearls. Not popular after the mid-14th century."  [source here.]

 

More info here.

 

http://www.arador.com/articles/ailette1.jpg

 

"...literary sources describe their construction. Most had a base of leather or parchment covered with embroidered silk…."

[with template & instructions here.

 

http://www.liebaart.org/ailett_e.htm

 

http://www.historiavivens1300.at/images/ritter/ailett_det.jpg

from a nice German site here.

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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11 February 2007 12:41
 

Thanks Guy!  Here’s a link to my current gambeson, I bought it from here.

http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/ShowLargeImage.aspx?Prod=Early Gambeson&LgImage=0100278_L_000.jpg

 

Maybe I’ll work up the courage to have a picture taken with my full harness on…:oops:

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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11 February 2007 20:34
 

Andrew,

Nice hauberk! I, too, have been a mailler (off and on) for the last 10 years and started while in the SCA. What size wire and mandril do you use? From the closeup, your rings look like they have a fairly large ID. Have you tried riveted yet? You should. :D

 

As far as arms on the spaulders go, I’ve never seen anything to suggest it, with the exception of ailettes as Guy pointed out. I would question the definition of ailettes as "small shields" due to their construction. I believe that they were simply another means of identification from the side and had little or no defensive properties. I have also long wondered if the shoulder patches used on private and public law enforcement uniforms were derived from the same idea as the ailette.

 

Arms were, however, used on gorgets, but long after maille ceased being used as a primary armour. During the 18th and 19th centuries gorgets were used as a symbol of authority and were worn by military officers. These gorgets would often have the royal, national, or unit (and if I can remember correctly, sometimes personal) arms or cypher etched or chassed on them. For reference, here is a picture of a young George Washington in 1772 wearing the uniform of the Virginia Regiment and a silver gorget (which would have borne the Royal arms).

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/Washington_1772.JPG

 

Take care,

 
 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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11 February 2007 23:58
 

PBlanton wrote:

...During the 18th and 19th centuries gorgets were used as a symbol of authority and were worn by military officers.

Gorgets ringkragen were used in the 20th century by German military police (Feldgendarmerie) and color-bearers (Fahnentraeger).

WWI Field guard duty: PHOTO

 

WWII Feldgendarmerie:

http://www.lssah.com/images/gorget2.jpg

 

As worn:

http://perso.orange.fr/did.panzer/uni_insigne/feldjager-tenue.jpg

"Ausweis bitte"

 

 

 

Fahnentraeger:

http://perso.orange.fr/did.panzer/uni_insigne/Standarte-ringkragen.jpg

 

As worn:

http://perso.orange.fr/did.panzer/uni_insigne/Standarte-PzRgt.jpg

 

—Guy

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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12 February 2007 00:04
 

Philip- The inner diameter is actually 3/16 if I remember correctly and the wire was 17 gauge galvanized steel.  I no longer have the mandril, I broke it down after I completed this project.  I had thought of trying my hand at riveted, but with two wee ones about I don’t know where I’d get the time!  I’ll eventually get back into tho, my son likes to try and put his arms thru it when I have it out so I’ll probably make one for him when he’s older.  If I can, I’ll take a pic of a single ring next to a dime so you can see the scale better.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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12 February 2007 00:27
 

i have never done this stuff…but i have to say the more i see it the more i like what it all brings to heraldry…thanks.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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12 February 2007 01:11
 

Guy Power wrote:

Gorgets ringkragen were used in the 20th century by German military police (Feldgendarmerie) and color-bearers (Fahnentraeger).

WWII Feldgendarmerie:

http://www.lssah.com/images/gorget2.jpg

 

As worn:

http://perso.orange.fr/did.panzer/uni_insigne/feldjager-tenue.jpg

"Ausweis bitte"


Note: the gorgets of the Feldgendarmerie were modernised to include irradiated phosphorescent paint on the eagle, two buttons and the word Feldgendarmerie for duty at night.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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12 February 2007 01:32
 

That’s vaguely creepy. But cool nonetheless!

Cheers,

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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12 February 2007 13:15
 

David Pritchard wrote:

Note: the gorgets of the Feldgendarmerie were modernised to include irradiated phosphorescent paint on the eagle, two buttons and the word Feldgendarmerie for duty at night.


Yes, I was going to add a photo, but exceeded the limit.  Now that you mention the subject:

 

Daylight & flouresced

http://www.lssah.com/images/gorget2.jpghttp://www.lssah.com/images/gorget1.jpg

 

 

—Guy

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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12 February 2007 13:24
 

PBlanton wrote:

...here is a picture of a young George Washington in 1772 wearing the uniform of the Virginia Regiment and a silver gorget (which would have borne the Royal arms).


Don’t think so!  The provincial arms, instead.  This is Washington’s 1774 gorget in the collection of the Massachusetts Historical Society:

 

http://images.virtualology.com/images/928.jpg

 

And here’s another Virginia gorget, this time in silver-colored metal:

 

http://www.geocities.com/xxtradesilver/VirginaGorget.jpg

 
Daniel C. Boyer
 
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Daniel C. Boyer
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12 February 2007 13:41
 

Joseph McMillan wrote:

Don’t think so!  The provincial arms, instead.  This is Washington’s 1774 gorget in the collection of the Massachusetts Historical Society:


Quite interesting.  Thank you for posting this.

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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12 February 2007 16:23
 

Guy Power wrote:

Gorgets ringkragen were used in the 20th century by German military police (Feldgendarmerie) and color-bearers (Fahnentraeger).


Very cool!

 

[Thinking out loud] Hmmmmm…...The town I work for has a strong German heritage and the Chief has been looking for some sort of distinctive insignia to further distinguish us from surrounding agencies, maybe I should suggest a gorget with the city arms on it to wear with our Ike’s :mrgreen: [/Thinking]


Joseph McMillan wrote:

Don’t think so! The provincial arms, instead. This is Washington’s 1774 gorget in the collection of the Massachusetts Historical Society


Thanks for the correction, Joe! :D

 

Take care,