So I noticed that most of the people here have a motto to go along with your arms.  I already am aware that a motto isn’t completely necessary to complete a coat of arms…and that some people will even change their motto down the line with little problem.  So my question is a little easier, but not one I could find an answer to so far.

Is there a particular language the motto is written in?  I know I’ve seen mottos written in English, but most of them seem to be done in another language.  Now, I’m wondering is there a particular language they tend to be written in?  Latin perhaps?  Or is it based more on where the person traces their surname roots to?  For example, would it be logical for mine to be written in Polish?

Regards,

Joshua

AILD;75215 wrote:

Is there a particular language the motto is written in? I know I’ve seen mottos written in English, but most of them seem to be done in another language. Now, I’m wondering is there a particular language they tend to be written in? Latin perhaps? Or is it based more on where the person traces their surname roots to? For example, would it be logical for mine to be written in Polish?

It’s really your choice.  As someone who chose a motto that’s in Latin, I’m probably in no position to throw stones, but I’ve always found it silly that people will take a sentiment that they originally compose in perfectly good English and translate it into Latin (most common) or French (probably second) to serve as a motto, as if English weren’t good enough.

George Lucki is much better qualified than I to comment on Polish custom, but I believe that mottoes are rather unusual in Polish heraldry.  So having a motto in Polish probably wouldn’t be particularly logical—unless there’s something that Adam Mickiewicz or some other great Polish literary figure wrote that strikes your fancy as a motto.

(In my case, the phrase I use was originally written in Latin, not English—it’s from the Roman poet Horace.  I’ve toyed with the idea of changing it to follow the Scottish custom that a person’s motto should echo or respond to his chief’s.  The chief of Clan Macmillan has as his secondary motto the Gaelic "Fhad’s a bhuitheas tonn ri crag," which means "as long as the wave beats upon the rock"; my idea is to use "Fhad’s a ruitheas sruth," which means "as long as the stream flows.")

I think part of the appeal of having the motto in another language, is it almost adds a little bit of mystery to the arms in some way.  Usually when a person thinks of heraldry, they tend to think of Europe…ancestry…the old world…things along that line.  So I think people almost try to "age" their coat of arms by putting their motto in an old, or ancestrial language.  This is just my theory though…I’m sure there’s plenty of other people who might’ve chosen another language for other reasons.

I decided to take my motto (Nolite Iugo Servitutis Continere) from the Latin Vulgate of the Bible (for no other reason than simplicity).  It simply seemed to me to convey the message in a more concise fashion.

I could have gone with the original Greek (Τῇ ἐλευθερίᾳ οὖν, ᾗ Χριστὸς ἡμᾶς ἠλευθέρωσε, στήκετε, καὶ μὴ πάλιν ζυγῷ δουλείας ἐνέχεσθε), with its reference to the Messiah, but decided the Latin was more along the lines I was hoping to convey.

Its English equivalent (Do Not Submit to the Yoke of Slavery) was simplified by the four Latin words.

Being sure that George will provide an answer, may I express my own opinion regarding Polish mottoes.

As to the historical background: mottoes are relatively rare in Polish heraldry - and, BTW, the ancient clan war cries were never used by the Polish nobles as heraldic slogans; bon another hand, in the arms of the titled nobility mottoes are pretty common (partly because the majority of titles in Poland are of foreign provenance and thus tied to a spontaneous import of extra-Polish habits).

The latter circumstance makes motto, as a part of achievement, perfectly Polish in the end of the day. IMHO today mottoes are the best tools for making Polish clan arms "personalised" for a family or a branch.

But in this particular case, we are discussing Polish motto in a non-Polish achievement. After all, a Polish motto does not make the armiger Polish, or subjugate the arms to the Polish customs. - Dear Joseph, I hope you will agree that your Latin motto do not make you an ancient Roman, or a Jesuit

For the purpose suggested, the Polish idiom IMHO is as good as any; as would be ancient Greek, Hebrew, Inuktitut or ... whatever.

Well I’m gradually trying to learn Polish, and one thing I have noticed is that there’s quite a few words that are quite a bit longer in Polish, than they are in English.  So if you wanted a short length motto anyway, it could be difficult

You can have a motto in any language that you desire.  Latin is a classic choice, but English is just as valid.  I’ve seen Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Japanese mottos as well.  I’m not sure about fictional languages (like Klingon or Tolkien’s Elvish), but whatever floats your boat!  I would advocate following your ancestry, and would defiantly keep a quote in its original language.

Personally, my motto (placed below the shield) is a quote from Hamlet: “To Thine Own Self Be True”, while my slogan (placed above the crest in Scottish fashion) is “Veritas Honorque” or “Truth and Honor” in Latin.

As far as English heraldry is concerned, mottos and crests can be changes at will.

Joseph McMillan;75216 wrote:

In my case, the phrase I use was originally written in Latin, not English—it’s from the Roman poet Horace.  I’ve toyed with the idea of changing it to follow the Scottish custom that a person’s motto should echo or respond to his chief’s.  The chief of Clan Macmillan has as his secondary motto the Gaelic "Fhad’s a bhuitheas tonn ri crag," which means "as long as the wave beats upon the rock"; my idea is to use "Fhad’s a ruitheas sruth," which means "as long as the stream flows."

Why choose – use both the Horace quote in Latin below, and the MacMillan in Gàidhlig above.

Just be careful if you choose to have your motto done up in a language that is not your own. Case in point: me! My motto is: "Nobility is in the Heart". I thought that I’d give a nod towards my ancestry and have it translated into Welsh. So .... I found someone online who claimed to speak Welsh and offered translations, and that translation became my motto! Nicely done, yes?

But then I made a friend online who speaks Welsh daily, she even attends a university where courses are taught in Welsh. So I said: here’s my motto, what do you think? She replied, "Ummm ... it looks like you’re trying to say something about nobility and the heart." I translated for her. She said, "Ah. Well, I certainly wouldn’t say it that way. I’d say (blahblahblah) or (blahblahblah). But what you have really doesn’t make a lot of sense."

I have just never gotten around to changing it as I have a lot of artwork done up with the original motto; I’m just lazy; etc. (Take your choice of any or all of the possible reasons.) But the point of all of this is: before you settle on a motto done up in a language that you are not fluent in, make double (maybe even triple or quadruple) sure that the translation is correct.

Patrick Williams;75280 wrote:

Just be careful if you choose to have your motto done up in a language that is not your own.

And translation isn’t the only problem; there’s also an issue of idiom.  Depending on what exactly Patrick means about nobility being in the heart, the ancient Greeks might have said it was in the intestines.  See a number of the epistles of St. Paul in which the Greek word that translates literally as "bowels" or "intestines" is used to describe the seat of compassion, mercy, etc.—the equivalent of the way we use "heart."

If someone had said to Paul in Greek, "nobility is in the heart," he probably would have understood the words perfectly well (unlike Patrick’s example of Welsh), but would likely have responded "no it isn’t, it’s in the bowels."

Joseph McMillan;75284 wrote:

And translation isn’t the only problem; there’s also an issue of idiom.  Depending on what exactly Patrick means about nobility being in the heart, the ancient Greeks might have said it was in the intestines.  See a number of the epistles of St. Paul in which the Greek word that translates literally as "bowels" or "intestines" is used to describe the seat of compassion, mercy, etc.—the equivalent of the way we use "heart."

If someone had said to Paul in Greek, "nobility is in the heart," he probably would have understood the words perfectly well (unlike Patrick’s example of Welsh), but would likely have responded "no it isn’t, it’s in the bowels."

So you’re saying, it takes guts?

Well I’m not even sure what route I’d be going down with it being in English, Polish, or Latin…but if I needed it translated to polish I know a few very helpful Polish websites where I could at least get multiple opinions on it.

Joseph McMillan;75284 wrote:

And translation isn’t the only problem; there’s also an issue of idiom.  Depending on what exactly Patrick means about nobility being in the heart, the ancient Greeks might have said it was in the intestines.  See a number of the epistles of St. Paul in which the Greek word that translates literally as "bowels" or "intestines" is used to describe the seat of compassion, mercy, etc.—the equivalent of the way we use "heart."

If someone had said to Paul in Greek, "nobility is in the heart," he probably would have understood the words perfectly well (unlike Patrick’s example of Welsh), but would likely have responded "no it isn’t, it’s in the bowels."

Hmm. Maybe I should change my motto and have it done up in Greek! "Nobility is in the Bowels" has a certain ring to it! :D

Patrick Williams;75305 wrote:

Hmm. Maybe I should change my motto and have it done up in Greek! "Nobility is in the Bowels" has a certain ring to it! :D

Now that I think of it, however, my wife would probably begin to complain that I "expressed my nobility" too frequently. :p So maybe I’d best just leave my nobility in my heart.

Women just don’t understand these things

AILD;75363 wrote:

Women just don’t understand these things

:confused:

Witness the confusion!

Haha, don’t worry Kathy, you’re cool so you don’t need to know these things…we still all love you.