I am not really FEELING it for the Badger in Henri’s arms… reasoning is due to his surname is still Bagereau, the following generations decided to take this mispelled name variation, so Badger is not present until later. But like I said before, possibly make some different ideas and see which one best floats with the rest of the family branches.
Here is the Fluer-di-lys dimidiating a Maple leaf with the three lozenges, then the crest could be a Badger, proper or not present one for Henri’s letting the next generations to add it.
http://www.custom-gifts-and-arts.com/heraldry/badgerow_arms4.jpg
Here is the Badger gold and gules over 3 lozenges argent.
http://www.custom-gifts-and-arts.com/heraldry/badgerow_arms3c.jpg
I really don’t like the dimidated maple leaf/fleur-de-lis. It would probably be best to use the two charges separately, if you use both.
Joe referenced, several pages ago: "French arms of Bagereau, Azure three lozenges in bend Argent, over all a lion rampant Or" as a starting point.
The otherwise well-done illustrations of various designs so far, have shown the lozenges palewise—i.e. the long axis vertical. However IIRC a number of lozenges in bend are aligned bendwise—i.e. the long axis of each lozenge diagonally like a backslash \ & usually with the points touching or almost so.
Whether or not this would be an artistic improvement is likely debatable—de gustibus & all that—but if the intent is to reflect in some way the old French arms, then it would seem appropriate to use the same alignment.
Another passing thought—if ancestor Henri Bagereau / Bergereau was indeed one of the French officers accompanying Lafayette to America—& apparently stuck around—I’m surprised his ancestry hasn’t already been researched by others over the last 200+ years— maybe the Cincinnati, or the Sons of the Cincinnati, or the DAR or SAR?
Michael F. McCartney;81160 wrote:
Another passing thought—if ancestor Henri Bagereau / Bergereau was indeed one of the French officers accompanying Lafayette to America ...
He wasn’t. The Victoire brought Lafayette and about a dozen companions to South Carolina in June 1777. There was no large body of soldiers, just officers (and three servants). The American agent in Paris, Silas Deane, made a list of the party, including the servants, which is available in Louis Gottschalk’s Lafayette in America, at http://www.archive.org/stream/lafayettecomesto002363mbp#page/n179/mode/2up
There is no Bargereau, Bergereau, or any similar name in the group.
As is noted at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TheShipsList/2000-10/0970716844, there were probably about 30 sailors in the crew when the Victoire ran aground after dropping off Lafayette and his party. Henri Bargereau may have been one of these, although frankly I find it implausible that a shipwrecked French sailor could have gotten from South Carolina to Vermont, across a country where he didn’t speak the language, in the middle of a war, in time to meet and marry the sister of a British officer and have a child by 1779.
But then I’m notoriously addicted to facts.
Certainly, J.M. Bulloch in "Gordons Under Arms" (Volume 3 of "The House of Gordon") notes no "Major Gordon" in the USA/Colonies in the 1770s/1780s marrying a Begereau. Of course the "Major" bit could be rank inflation, but lacking a first name its difficult to pin him down.
James
Joseph McMillan;81165 wrote:
frankly I find it implausible that a shipwrecked French sailor could have gotten from South Carolina to Vermont, across a country where he didn’t speak the language, in the middle of a war, in time to meet and marry the sister of a British officer and have a child by 1779.
But what a great story that would make. There’s just nothing more pleasing to me than historical fiction. I think Bernard Cornwell should be notified immediately. 
I think if the lozenges were arraigned as Michael describes, it would look quite nice. I’m not a fan of the Badger overall, I think it pretty well hides the lozenges.
Joseph McMillan;81165 wrote:
He wasn’t. The Victoire brought Lafayette and about a dozen companions to South Carolina in June 1777. There was no large body of soldiers, just officers (and three servants). The American agent in Paris, Silas Deane, made a list of the party, including the servants, which is available in Louis Gottschalk’s Lafayette in America, at http://www.archive.org/stream/lafayettecomesto002363mbp#page/n179/mode/2up
There is no Bargereau, Bergereau, or any similar name in the group.
As is noted at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TheShipsList/2000-10/0970716844, there were probably about 30 sailors in the crew when the Victoire ran aground after dropping off Lafayette and his party. Henri Bargereau may have been one of these, although frankly I find it implausible that a shipwrecked French sailor could have gotten from South Carolina to Vermont, across a country where he didn’t speak the language, in the middle of a war, in time to meet and marry the sister of a British officer and have a child by 1779.
But then I’m notoriously addicted to facts.
I emailed one of the Badgerow family researchers, to see what has become of this "STORY/RUMOR" about Lafayette and coming to USA in the time frame. As I marked in red in posting the Badgerow list’s correspondances (occuring 1999 ~ 11 years ago) and the start of this post… I personally do not believe Badgerow goes back to a man with a granted arms.
Email Correspondance (1/14/11)
Back when my mother corresponded with Cam while he was compiling his book and she was sharing what she had on our lineage, she tells me they had a conversation about the family’s possible origins. Apparently, someone spoke with a Frenchman, inquiring about the surname and he suggested the family’s origins may have been that area. By the time I began pursuing my interest in genealogy, the assumption had made it into my mother’s data.
I researched Marquis de Lafayette and learned his first voyage on the ship la Victoire ("the Victory", which ran aground on a rock or sandbar in a coastal bay) brought a motley crew of young men mostly from noble families who expected to be welcomed with open arms, put in charge of our military and find fame. When they arrived at the Continental Congress, they had a rude awakening when all but Lafayette were flatly rejected.
There was no name I could locate among this group that seemed even remotely similar to any known ancestor of our family.
I continued my research, learning that the soldiers and sailors sent by France arrived quite some time after Francis’ enlistment date. When the French arrived, they were kept in strictly French units commanded by their own French officers. Most were sailors on the ships, serving as our navy. What’s interesting is to look at Francis’ muster roll documents as it is noted that there was a language barrier, which, I expect, is perhaps why the soldiers arriving from France were not allowed to be absorbed into our military units.
This is what led me to the view that our ancestor(s) who fought in the War were already here, on the continent. There’s a reference to David Badgero’s father being a "French-Canadian" in the "History of the Town of Canadice", which seems very credible to me. I’m currently pursuing possible links to Quebec.
As for the claim the ancestor(s) "fought with Lafayette", it’s possible they may have been among the troops who wintered at Valley Forge. From what I read, the French troops all wintered at Lafayette’s camp while the American (English) troops kept a separate camp.
I’ve not yet searched for rosters that might confirm this possibility.
I have, I believe, located early military records for several "Badgerows".
Francis is one of Henri’s brothers
We kind of have ran off track here… to genealogy and trying to confirm that Henri BADGEROW/BAGEREAU is some how connected to the Charles BAGEREAU who was a Esquire to the King serving as tax collector for a small town NW of Paris.
I DO NOT believe these two men are related the surname Badgerow could be a multitude of French surname possibles.
The surname Badgerow ~ first seen in Rev. War records to be spelled Bashgereau and Basserow and then Markham Ontario Canada the Badgerow/Bagereau burial ground (1800s). Yet, we simply do NOT know the true French spelling of this surname before 1777… It actually could be a dit name and why we can not find the family until the mispelling or more English form of the name becomes aparent in records.
Lets start FRESH… stay away from the Charles Bagereau arms. I emailed a few family members from other branches to see if the Badger,as a main charge, would be acceptable.
kkb-ia;81153 wrote:
I am not really FEELING it for the Badger in Henri’s arms… reasoning is due to his surname is still Bagereau, the following generations decided to take this mispelled name variation, so Badger is not present until later.
Just a comment about canting arms:
Spelling has nothing to do with it. If the name even vaguely sounds like "badger," one can create canting arms using that image. Canting arms are about sound, not spelling. Of course, if one doesn’t like the badger, one doesn’t have to use it. Arms don’t have to be canting; it’s just a traditional way of divising distinctive arms. It comes from the use of arms for identification. In canting arms, the devices remind one of the name of the bearer.
I like this… unless there is something wrong with a chevron in cheif and the fluer-di-lys sideways (turned to dexter and sinister) and the Badger being langued.
http://www.custom-gifts-and-arts.com/heraldry/badgerow_arms3d.jpg
kkb-ia;81181 wrote:
unless there is something wrong with a chevron in cheif and the fluer-di-lys sideways (turned to dexter and sinister) ....
Wrong as in there is a rule against it or wrong as in it’s bad heraldry?
kkb-ia;81174 wrote:
Lets start FRESH… stay away from the Charles Bagereau arms.
If you’d like, but it’s not necessary (see post #13 - Joseph’s explanation of "strangers in blood")
But if you do start fresh, using a badger as a main charge is a great canting reference. I would proceed carefully from there, adding any other charges judiciously (and as few as possible to meet your needs). This latest effort with the chveron and fesswise fleur-de-lis in chief seems unnecessarily complicated, and lacking in the clear symbolism you were looking for in earlier versions. Does the chevron mean something? If not, lose it (visually, it doesn’t work well anyway).
Strictly as a matter of personal preference, I would use a badger rampant rather than just the head. It’s more easily identifiable, and fills the field better.
So far, EVERYONE like the Badger rampant… so it stays, the head erased was another idea I drew up watching a movie last night.
Yes, Ken I meant is is OKAY heraldric wise, a good one
Here is the Badger rampant yet Ken you suggested cog wheels semy, so here is what that looks like. I personaly like this… it allows the Badger to not stick out like a sore thumb as much and creates that extra touch to the arms.
http://www.custom-gifts-and-arts.com/heraldry/badgerow_arms3e.jpg
kkb-ia;81184 wrote:
http://www.custom-gifts-and-arts.com/heraldry/badgerow_arms3e.jpg
Yes. Stop there.
OKAY, now that we have the sheild… a family crest, yes or no?
If a crest is to be made, how does everyone feel about the Badger head erased… or since the Badger is already on sheild come up with something different?
