Is there a recommended method for ensuring that assumed arms don’t duplicate existing arms?  I’ve already googled my proposed blazon, searched through Burke’s etc. and haven’t yet found any matches for my proposed design.

That being said, the design is so simple that I wonder that it hasn’t already been taken.

(Argent/Or) on a chevron engrailed gules a chevronel of the first:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2174/5772869532_7bc90c2741.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2137/5772328565_16b60f3471.jpg

I appreciate any help you can provide.

David

You’re getting rid of the scallops and the flower?  i really liked those.

jcar;83679 wrote:

You’re getting rid of the scallops and the flower?  i really liked those.

Not necessarily.  Just working off the assumption that if the "base arms" (Or/argent on a chevron engrailed a chevronel of the the field) haven’t been "spoken for" then any permutation based on them (i.e. a canton with a dogwood flower/escallop) would certainly be available.

On the other hand, you can always difference a simple design by adding charges for individual use.  if you start with a more complicated design, though, any differencing makes the design more busy…

I’m not sure how to say this, but I don’t think you’re considering the larger picture. The design you’ve presented here is probably too simple and extremely similar, if not exactly the same, to something that has come before. It could be as simple as Or/Azure or Argent/Azure. The addition of a charge will go a long way towards ensuring that your design is suitably different.

No 24;83681 wrote:

I’m not sure how to say this, but I don’t think you’re considering the larger picture. The design you’ve presented here is probably too simple and extremely similar, if not exactly the same, to something that has come before.

Right, this is exactly what I am trying to determine, I’m just not sure the best way to go about doing this without there being a universal register of arms.

A recent thread here identified at least one new grant from Canada that was refreshingly simple:

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/showpost.php?p=83340&postcount=3

http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/v552_20090028_arms_kucher.jpg

What I’m trying to avoid, though, is what Joe subsequently pointed out…that the same design was already in use by a US military unit.

So, what’s the most effective way to see if a certain arms design has already been taken?

David

I think you’re on the right track in searching. There’s no way to say beyond any shadow of a doubt that a coat of arms hasn’t been created like this before. You might try Rietstap as well:

http://www.blazonsearch.com/index.php

Then it depends on just how original you want to be. "A chevron engrailed gules" is not uncommon, but I think the addition of a chevronel, while simple, may be quite original.

Burke’s and Rietstap’s will go a long way, David. The trick is making sure you’ve got the various abbreviations covered. I Googled "‘on a chevron engrailed’ chevronnel" and got a few things, but nothing that would conflict with what you have in terms of seeming like a relative house.

David,

I think the problem is that a chevron engrailed surmounted by a chevronel is (to me) too close for comfort to two chevronels engrailed, or even to two plain chevronels.  I’d keep the canton from your original design.

No 24;83681 wrote:

I’m not sure how to say this, but I don’t think you’re considering the larger picture. The design you’ve presented here is probably too simple and extremely similar, if not exactly the same, to something that has come before. It could be as simple as Or/Azure or Argent/Azure. The addition of a charge will go a long way towards ensuring that your design is suitably different.

While I agree that a charge would still be appropriate on the shield…I’m not sure there’s such thing as too simple when it comes to heraldry.  Assuming of course that it is unique, and not ridiculous.  No light sabers on the shield please .

How much effort do the various heraldic authorities make to ensure there isn’t duplication of arms outside of their jurisdictions? Does the Lord Lyon, for example, research german, spanish, polish, etc. arms to ensure uniqueness, or is he just concerned with the UK?

Globally unique arms are certainly ‘best practice,’ but when it comes down it, if it’s just about jurisdiction — isn’t it ultimately just a question of ‘who claims the arms first’ in the US?

Andemicael;83692 wrote:

Globally unique arms are certainly ‘best practice,’ but when it comes down it, if it’s just about jurisdiction — isn’t it ultimately just a question of ‘who claims the arms first’ in the US?

I think that is one of the downsides to the relative newness, as well as the multiculturalism, of the United States. Arms "claimed" here that already exist in the Old World are much more likely to be seen as (and frankly I think more likely to be) a usurpation rather than an honest attempt at something unique.

One point to make, in my attempt to ensure my proposed arms weren’t an usurpation, particularly since the charges in chief are based on a tombstone considered an usurpation by the granting authorities - It was worth contacting the granting authority in the area and asking them if they were aware of any equivalent arms to the ones I was proposing to assume.

Also, checking for various ways of saying basically the same thing, Some blazons of Murdoch/Mckie say two ravens transfixed and some say two ravens pendant on an arrow…It’s believed the McClurg male line of the "raven" story died out with the marriage of Margaret McLurg to a "Captain Heron" in the 1400’s. But there is some debate.  My family is traceable only to the 1600’s at this time.  So, althuogh probably not related to the McLurg of the tale, I chose to give a nod to that piece of the story and did a bit of work (with some help) to ensure I’d not usurped another’s arms.

Considering how many arms are out there that are officially registered, and all those ones that haven’t been, it is a bit daunting to come up with a completely unique design.  That being said, duplicates will most likely be made, even if the person goes through the effort of searching the lists of existing blazons.  I think that as long as you make a genuine effort to ensure that you aren’t copying somebody, then you’re safe.  If 20 years down the line you find that somebody already has your coat of arms, you can deal with the problem then.  These things happen.  At least you have the right intentions.

[QUOTE=JIf 20 years down the line you find that somebody already has your coat of arms, you can deal with the problem then.

Indeed, perhaps in that time dueling will again be legal (Nerf blasters at dawn)... otherwise, it would be the honorable thing to yield based on seniority for date of assumption to assuming a difference if both bearers reside in the same jurisdiction (or at least don’t both reside in the same jurisdiction of a granting authority).

The old rule (apparently still relied on by the various official heralds) of ignoring duplication in mother jurisdictions IMO worked well enough when most folks never wandered that far from home; or if so, it was just a visit & they would return home with tales of seeing similar arms in other places.  In the US, however, you’re quite likely going to find a mini-UN on any given block or neighborhood.