Today the Pope appointed Archbishop Joseph Tobin, C.Ss.R., an American working in the Roman Curia, as Archbishop of Indianapolis. It will be interesting to see how his personal arms are marshaled to those of Indianapolis. I think the arms of the Redemptorist Order (of which Abp. Tobin is a member and used to be Superior General) will have to go. But, we’ll see.
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/2430/tobinarms.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WPjZST8SC40/S-sAq8D7tnI/AAAAAAAA5iY/3zQiUmk3A10/s400/CW.jpg
Seems like the personal and diocesan (sp?) arms should impale rather nicely—both are relatively clean & simple, and in contrasting colors.
I think you are misunderstanding. Everything on the shield in the top image is the archbishop’s personal arms, including the arms of the Redemptorist Order in the dexter impalment. Unless he redesigns these personal arms (and, in my opinion drops the that entire dexter impalement) it will make a rather complicated coat of arms impaled with the arms of the archdiocese.
No offense intended, but the more I encounter these Catholic arms, the more I’m convinced that an official arms-granting body run by professional heralds is not a bad thing…
David Pope;96213 wrote:
No offense intended, but the more I encounter these Catholic arms, the more I’m convinced that an official arms-granting body run by professional heralds is not a bad thing…
We need another Pope to share this opinion 
Medvedev FTW.
gselvester;96208 wrote:
I think you are misunderstanding. Everything on the shield in the top image is the archbishop’s personal arms, including the arms of the Redemptorist Order in the dexter impalment. Unless he redesigns these personal arms (and, in my opinion drops the that entire dexter impalement) it will make a rather complicated coat of arms impaled with the arms of the archdiocese.
For his personal arms side, the Archbishop could quarter. I and IV, the arms of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer; II and III, His Excellency’s arms.
I might also change Tobin’s arms from the per-fess to a chief: “Gules a fleur-de-lis Argent, on a chief Azure three oak leaves also Argent”. I think that the three changes on a chief would look very balanced, and it would allow Tobin’s fleur to be a nice central element (not unlike the good Fr. Selvester’s red cross). My 2ยข.
David Pope;96213 wrote:
No offense intended, but the more I encounter these Catholic arms, the more I’m convinced that an official arms-granting body run by professional heralds is not a bad thing…
I would not go so far as a British-style “arms-granting body”, but The Church could certainly benefit from some professional heralds.
If not a formal granting body (seems unlikely) if a Pope were to publicly express admiration & support for the work of some competent heraldic artist, I suspect that artist’s views & practices would flourish & be followed by others, at least for a while—hopefully long enough to establish a lasting trend.
Michael F. McCartney;96325 wrote:
If not a formal granting body (seems unlikely) if a Pope were to publicly express admiration & support for the work of some competent heraldic artist, I suspect that artist’s views & practices would flourish & be followed by others, at least for a while—hopefully long enough to establish a lasting trend.
But what if the pope can’t tell the difference between good and bad? Careful what you wish for.
Kenneth Mansfield;96329 wrote:
But what if the pope can’t tell the difference between good and bad? Careful what you wish for.
By definition he’s infallible. Thus if your opinion about good heraldry differed you would be wrong 
I hope you were kidding (the emoticon suggests you were).
cachambers007;96354 wrote:
By definition he’s infallible. Thus if your opinion about good heraldry differed you would be wrong
—(the other) Guy
Guy Power;96362 wrote:
Your understanding of infallibility is fallible. The Pope is ever only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra; which he won’t about mere heraldry.
His Holiness will only invoke ēx cathēdrā for things like the Immaculate Conception of Mary (Pius IX, 1854) and the Assumption of Mary (Pius XII, 1950). Heraldry might be great and all, but it doesn’t quite reach that level.
I assumed Chris’s smiley face was meant to indicate that he knew that.
But I would say that whether the Pope is speaking ex cathedra or not, there’s still a reason why Roma locuta est translates freely as "That’s final." Mediocre heraldry emanating from an authoritative Vatican agency could have an even more destructive impact than the mediocre heraldry put out by the College of Arms and Lyon Office for, oh, about 250 years.
I suspect that a lot of the amateurish stuff that we regularly trash on this forum has its esthetic roots in the style of official British grants from about 1660 to 1960, like these dreadful sub-par efforts on the part of Lord Lyon between 1950 and 1964.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillan-Lag.gif
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillan-Mur2.gif
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/Macmillan-Guildford.gif
Or these from the College of Arms, same general time frame:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/Macmillan-Stockton.gif
So be careful what you ask for.
"Caveat requestor"? (OK, so I don’t have much Latin…)
What I was trying to suggest was not that the Pope make heraldic pronouncements himself—way too hard to back away from them if, on sober reflection etc.
Rather, the Pope (or maybe some appropriate Cardinal with the Pope’s blessing) could ask around & find some really competent fellow—some worthy successor to Bruno Heim—and let that expert do the guiding & cajoling with an occasional public "attaboy" or "listen up y’all" from the Pope/Cardinal, who most of the time has far bigger fish to fry. And if the expert were to go too far, or too far astray, the Pope retains his plausible deniability.
But all just a pipe dream I fear…
Yes, I thought the smilely was sufficient to show that it was a joke.
Those were some truly horrible examples of heraldry. What is the origin of the first image, it seems too close to your own arms to be mere coincidence.
Joseph McMillan;96369 wrote:
I assumed Chris’s smiley face was meant to indicate that he knew that.
