This morning I was struck by an idea as I drove by a church.
According to what I’ve read, heraldic banners of arms are typically in the proportions of 5-parts hoist by 4-parts fly – resulting in a nearly-square upright rectangle.
If two of these were sown together, rather like impaled arms, then the result would be 5-by-8, which approaches the proportions of common rectangular flags. (5:8 also approximates the golden ratio, φ, which appeals to the geek in me 
The banner could be flown at all of the Diocese’s buildings – offices, churches, schools, etc. This is perhaps one way to get ecclesiastical heraldry out of the dusty archives and out into the real world.
During sede vacante, the arms of the former bishop could even be cut off, leaving just the diocese side to fly, until a new bishop is appointed.
Thoughts? Discussion?
Only that you clearly meant to write "Greek"* instead of "geek." If Kimon weren’t both, he might be offended!
And that one of these would actually be the banner of the bishop, not the diocese. But it seems like a great idea.
__________
* φ being a Greek letter, just to avoid being too subtle.
I’ve seen the Archdiocese of St. Louis use on occasion its own diocesan flag. Per pale Or and Argent on an escutcheon the arms of the Archdiocese surmounted by a precious miter. Not very original… just the Vatican’s arms minus the tiara and keys with instead the archdiocese’s own arms on the partition line. I don’t know if this idea came from some other diocese. I first saw it in 1999 when Pope John Paul II visited St. Louis. This flag along with the Vatican’s flag were flown from the two flag poles in front of the cathedral basilica.
Joseph McMillan;96750 wrote:
... these would actually be the banner of the bishop, not the diocese.
I agree.
Joseph McMillan;96750 wrote:
.... these would actually be the banner of the bishop, not the diocese.
I agree.
Dcgb7f;96754 wrote:
I’ve seen the Archdiocese of St. Louis use on occasion its own diocesan flag. Per pale Or and Argent on an escutcheon the arms of the Archdiocese surmounted by a precious miter. Not very original… just the Vatican’s arms minus the tiara and keys with instead the archdiocese’s own arms on the partition line. I don’t know if this idea came from some other diocese. I first saw it in 1999 when Pope John Paul II visited St. Louis. This flag along with the Vatican’s flag were flown from the two flag poles in front of the cathedral basilica.
It’s sort of consistent with the practice of the Church of England, in which the flag of a diocese is the St. George’s cross of England with the arms of the diocese on a shield in upper hoist. But I’ve never understood the logic of doing that instead of just using a banner of the arms, other than that it’s what is prescribed by the kings of arms.
Diocese of London
http://flags.net/images/largeflags/UNKG7601.GIF
Although the diocese of York seems to use a banner of its arms alone, according to the World Flags Database, www.flags.net
I agree with Joseph and Sterios - my suggestion would be a banner for the bishop, rather than for his diocese. Regardless, I still think that it would be a great way to get church heraldry out in the open. Maybe, if bishops knew that their arms would actually be made into flags and seen by everyone, then they might think twice before adopting the rather poor designs to which we’ve become accustomed.
steven harris;96758 wrote:
I agree with Joseph and Sterios - my suggestion would be a banner for the bishop, rather than for his diocese. Regardless, I still think that it would be a great way to get church heraldry out in the open. Maybe, if bishops knew that their arms would actually be made into flags and seen by everyone, then they might think twice before adopting the rather poor designs to which we’ve become accustomed.
Yes, I was about to say that there are some bishops’ arms that I would cringe to see translated into a banner.
Joseph McMillan;96757 wrote:
It’s sort of consistent with the practice of the Church of England, in which the flag of a diocese is the St. George’s cross of England with the arms of the diocese on a shield in upper hoist. But I’ve never understood the logic of doing that instead of just using a banner of the arms, other than that it’s what is prescribed by the kings of arms.
The best heraldic practice in the Church of England, of which I am aware, is the regular daily use by Southwark Cathedral in London of a true heraldic standard (one of the few I have seen flying).
The Cathedral arms can be seen on their web site at
http://cathedral.southwark.anglican.org/
You can get distant view of the standard, which consists of the principal tinctures of the arms and the lozenges that in the arms form a cross form a line down the standard. The lily from the arms is placed on one of the lozanges.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rondeeview/1477435582/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rondeeview/1477435582/
and
http://cathedral.southwark.anglican.org/images/home/banner03.jpg
http://cathedral.southwark.anglican.org/images/home/banner03.jpg
When the standard is getting tatty or in need of a wash they display a banner of the arms, as can be seen at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58686863@N03/5393534395/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58686863@N03/5393534395/
The Cathedral is across the river from the College of Arms and I believe these arms and banner were subject of a grant. If the CoA thought it a good idea in Southwark, they would no doubt be happy to see this formula rolled out nationally. The Cathedral gained an award from the Heraldry Society in 2007 for the various use of heraldic display.
I frequently walk past and admire their emblems - the church primary schools nearby use the shield of the arms to mark an area of the playgrounds to "friend", if someone has no-one to play with they will get recruited from there into a team.
Having just left London, I can say that Westminster Abbey, and St. Margaret’s next to it, both fly armorial banners of their arms.
In the Church of Sweden, the most common practice would be for a church/parish to use the armorial flag of the Church of Sweden, Or a cross Gules surmounted by a crown Or, but it is not uncommon for diocesan cathedrals to also have a flag with the diocesan arms. I know of at least one diocese that also has a flag with the bishop’s arms.
Derek Howard;96761 wrote:
The best heraldic practice in the Church of England, of which I am aware, is the regular daily use by Southwark Cathedral in London of a true heraldic standard (one of the few I have seen flying).
(snip)
The Cathedral is across the river from the College of Arms and I believe these arms and banner were subject of a grant. If the CoA thrk, they would no doubt be happy to see this formula rolled out nationally.
This is wonderful good news. And yet Brooke-Little tells us in his edition of Boutell that "There is, however, a proper flag for use by Anglican Churches. It was approved in 1938 by a Warrant of the Earl Marshal, in the terms following: ‘The Banner or Flag proper to be flown upon any Church within the Provinces of Canterbury and York to be the Cross of St. George and in the first quarter an escutcheon of the Arms of the See in which such Church is ecclesiastically situate."
Perhaps, however, the last phrase leaves room for a distinction between the flag to be flown on a parish church (the one in the EM’s warrant) and the right of the see itself (or, presumably the cathedral chapter) to fly a banner of its own arms. Or in the case of Southwark, a standard.
Not an Angilcan, but FWIW: it seems to me that the CoE practice of the St George flag with the local parish/diocese/whatever arms in the canton (or other denominational variations, with a common shared flag ensigned with some local emblem) is a wise choice on at least two counts:
* first, it emphasizes that it is a church, a place of Christian worshop, with the local identifier being quite properly merely secondary;
* and secondly, given the (let’s be generous) quite variable artistic and heraldic merits of various clerical arms, it minimizes the potential embarassment.
Not the heraldic ideal, of course, and some considerable loss of eye-candy value; but in this case the purpose of the display is primarily theological (eccesiastical?) and only secondarily heraldic in the secular sense.
In the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, a few (not enough, for my taste) institutions fly an armorial banner of the archdiocesan arms: Or a plough between three crosses botonny fitchy Gules. The one I see most often is at Gate of Heaven, a large cemetery owned by the archdiocese and the resting place of several archbishops and many priests.
