A curious beast…

 
Vijay Kaul
 
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Vijay Kaul
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21 November 2007 04:47
 

Any idea what s/he is? ... or was, noting the lack of head.

http://www.zovko.se/bilder/vad-ar-her-17-a.jpg

This is Fig. 17 from Davor Zovko’s site. I especially love the tendril/tail/tenticles extending from the knees. Fantastic!

 
emrys
 
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emrys
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21 November 2007 08:05
 

This looks like a troll, but traditionally the head should be on his belly.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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21 November 2007 10:52
 

Doesn’t the heraldic troll have a "devil’s tail"? Whatever it is, it’s a highly unusual charge.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 November 2007 19:18
 

Could it be a mandrake?

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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21 November 2007 20:55
 

It’s certainly not a Scottish Mandrake (which is a wild man with some bulbous vegetal growth coming out of his head). Whatever that charge is, I’m truly impressed with this fellow’s site.

This one from the same page is a typical mandrake:

 

http://www.zovko.se/bilder/tavlingar-1.jpg

 
Snyder
 
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Snyder
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30 November 2007 06:22
 

I’m new to all of this, so if this isn’t a Scottish emblem, then my theory is flawed. I found a quip on what is called "Coliunn Gun Chean " in Scottish Folklore that states:

Coliunn Gun Cheann (The Headless Trunk)

A huge hulking monster with no head who haunted the Macdonald lands near Morar House. Travellers would often be found mutilated by the creature. The creature was banished after defeat by a clan member.

 

So if there is any chance that this belongs to a member of the Macdonald clan, it is possible this would be explanation of the creature as it is fitting to a tree like creature on some aspects.

 

Or maybe it is for the family of David Icke and there wanting to destroy the evil race of reptilian humanioids from Alpha Draconis smile Regardless, thats just my thought on it.

 
Snyder
 
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Snyder
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Joined  25-11-2007
 
 
 
30 November 2007 07:11
 

I’m new to all of this, so if this isn’t a Scottish emblem, then my theory is flawed. I found a quip on what is called "Coliunn Gun Chean " in Scottish Folklore that states:

Coliunn Gun Cheann (The Headless Trunk)

A huge hulking monster with no head who haunted the Macdonald lands near Morar House. Travellers would often be found mutilated by the creature. The creature was banished after defeat by a clan member.

 

So if there is any chance that this belongs to a member of the Macdonald clan, it is possible this would be explanation of the creature.

 

Or maybe it is for the family of David Icke and there wanting to destroy the evil race of reptilian humanioids from Alpha Draconis Regardless, thats just my thought on it.

 
Sunil Saigal
 
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Sunil Saigal
Total Posts:  49
Joined  27-09-2005
 
 
 
30 November 2007 10:37
 

Vijay Kaul;51465 wrote:

Any idea what s/he is? ... or was, noting the lack of head.

http://www.zovko.se/bilder/vad-ar-her-17-a.jpg

This is Fig. 17 from Davor Zovko’s site. I especially love the tendril/tail/tenticles extending from the knees. Fantastic!


The figure is indeed a troll. These arms, which are canting, would belong to a female member of the family af Trolle (of Trolle), a branch of the Trolle family of the Swedish uradel (ancient nobility). There are a couple of variations of these arms. The original family arms have just the troll, whereas the af Trolle arms have the troll standing on a mound as shown here. A third branch, which was created barons (friherre) in 1816 added a border charged with besants. The little "af", akin to the German "von" or French "de", was presumably added in connection with an ennoblement by grant in 1782. It often happened that names were "improved" upon in this manner in connection with an ennoblement, whether or not the addition of the preposition made any sense.

 

The troll is often depicted with his head on his belly, but I believe that members of the family have used variations with or without the head on the belly over the years - though in the arms of the Trolle family and its various branches, the head is never in its normal place. Instead, it forms part of the crest. An early variation of the arms (before 1500), incidentally, shows only the head of the troll on both the shield and in the crest.

 

As regards the "tendrils" on the knees, I believe that those are meant to represent tufts of hair, and would be an artist’s whim. As for the tail, I do not believe that there is any tradition, at least in Scandinavian heraldry, for depicting, or at least describing, this in any particular manner, although the normal seems to be a tufted tail.

 
Sunil Saigal
 
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Sunil Saigal
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30 November 2007 12:02
 

Patrick Williams;51491 wrote:

It’s certainly not a Scottish Mandrake (which is a wild man with some bulbous vegetal growth coming out of his head). Whatever that charge is, I’m truly impressed with this fellow’s site.

This one from the same page is a typical mandrake:

 

http://www.zovko.se/bilder/tavlingar-1.jpg

Elsewhere on his site Davor Zovko explains that these arms, of the Swedish family of Tiljander (younger branch), adopted in 2003, are in fact also canting. He explains that the name Tiljander comes from "Tilia" (the Latin name of the linden tree), and "Ander" [sic] (from the Greek for "Man"). Thus a "Linden-man", a man with extremities ending in branches and roots of the linden tree, which is indeed how these particular arms are blazoned in Swedish.

For those that read Swedish, the explanation is given here:

http://www.zovko.se/heraldik/heraldik.htm. Click on "Tävlinger jag vunnit" on the grey band at the top. This refers to heraldik competitions won by Mr. Zovko - the Tiljander arms were voted "Arms of the Year 2004" by members of the Swedish Heraldry Society.

 

Rodney Dennys, in The Heraldic Imagination, 1975, p. 129, describes the Mandrake thus:

 

"A mildly poisonous plant, the Mandrake grows wildly all over the Mediterranean region and elsewhere in Europe. Its narcotic and emetic properties were much esteemed in the Middle Ages and it was also credited with aphrodisiac properties. The thick, knobbly and usually forked root has a curious resemblence to the human figure and, when dug up from the ground, was believed to utter a shriek so rending and piercing that it drove those who heard it mad. The Mandrake is not, of course, a monster or chimerical creature in the strict sense of the term, but in heraldic art it has acquired such anthropomorphic characteristics that it can be rated as one of the more fanciful of the fabulous creatures of heraldry, and a splendid example of the heraldic imagination in action".

 

Dennys goes on to say that the Mandrake is very rare as an heraldic charge, with one example in French heraldry and one in English heraldry, Bodyam or Bodyham of Essex, "whose arms, Gyronny of eight gules and sable three male Demi-Mandrakes argent, the hair, leaves and apples or, within a Bordure or charged with eight Cross Crosslets fitchy azure, and crest, a ‘shee Mandrake’ argent, the hair, leaves and apples proper, charged on the breast with a Cross Crosslet fitchy sable, were confirmed by Christopher Barker, Garter King of Arms between 1536 and 1547. The indications are that these arms were originally granted in the reign of King Henry VII.  Unfortunately of the grantee is not recorded, nor is anything further known of the family, so it is impossible to hazard a guess as to the symbolism of the creature in this case, or why the Mandrakes are of both sexes. In view of its medicinal properties one would expect the Mandrake to be a suitable charge for a physician."

 

A modern Scottish example of a mandrake in the arms of a pharmacist may be seen in the roll of the arms of members of the Heraldry Society of Scotland: http://heraldry-scotland.com/copgal/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=0