Hello all,

I was just thinking about the new arms for Kosovo’s pro-independence parliament (I’ve unloaded my language because that’s not what I’m asking about).

For one reason or another, this led me to think about attributed arms and I began googling up attributed arms of various people.

Long story short, I began to wonder if anyone has ever heard of arms being attributed to all of Western civilization?

I am familiar with the arms of the Holy Trinity, possibly this could have been applied to all of Christiandom…

Any thoughts?

I’d doubt it, the concept of ‘Western’ civilization seems pretty recent to me…..anyone with more knowledge in sociology, etc please feel free to correct me!

Cheers,

The arms of the West (as opposed to the East) in a European sense from the earliest times of heraldry would surely be the arms of the Holy See and the arms of the Holy Roman Empire.

The notion of the West has a history in Europe since the division fo the Roman Empire. Later the West was all of Roman Christendom - Rome as well as the protestant churches that split with Rome.

George Lucki;54395 wrote:

The arms of the West (as opposed to the East) in a European sense from the earliest times of heraldry would surely be the arms of the Holy See and the arms of the Holy Roman Empire.

It would be fun to speculate on this…

I for one, would not think that the arms of the Holy See would be appropriate, and not just as a statement of ‘secularism’, but because so much of what I consider to be western civilization is protestant.

Anyhoo, fun to speculate!

Here’s an interesting quote for our Egyptian friends to chew on…

"The theologian and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin conceived of the West as the set of civilizations decended from the Nile Valley Civilization of Egypt"

So that’d make me a Grand-Westerner or what? :p

Cheers,

Mark Olivo;54396 wrote:

It would be fun to speculate on this…

I for one, would not think that the arms of the Holy See would be appropriate, and not just as a statement of ‘secularism’, but because so much of what I consider to be western civilization is protestant.

Anyhoo, fun to speculate!

We aren’t necessarily in disagreement - which is why I gave my response an earlier timeframe. Of course later times brought profound splits and of course the more modern notions are sometimes particular. Finally no view of West can be simply secular - as that would be a denial of the real roots.

I am ‘voting’ for the arms of the Holy Roman Empire, as the role of the Emperor in his capacity of primus inter pares inferioresque was presumed to be universal. As to the Holy See’s arms, they were probably cristallised in their actual form after the effective failure of the concept of the Holy See’s absolute temporal superiority.

Michael Y. Medvedev;54409 wrote:

I am ‘voting’ for the arms of the Holy Roman Empire, as the role of the Emperor in his capacity of primus inter pares inferioresque was presumed to be universal.

Well since we’re voting now…

I think the HRE double-headed eagle has a place, (being the attributed arms of Julius Caesar as I recall) but perhaps as a lone supporter.

I’ve always been fond of the EU flag and it reminds me of Gen. Washington’s C-in-C flag, so perhaps a simple shield of azure with a circular constellation with a certain number of mullets argent representing something-or-other, and I would vote in favor of a cross on the shield in some capacity.

Just a thought…

Before voting for any arms for The West, I’d have to meditate on Gandhi’s remark. When asked what he thought of Western civilization, the Mahatma replied, "Western civilization would be a very good idea."