The Design seems in part based on the City Seal. As seen below, picture from Wikipedia:
It might as well be the city’s arms in full. I can not believe that someone is making a career off of this type of work. I suppose a conversation on the design went something like this:
Navy rep: "We have a new ship, we need arms designed for it."
Herald: "Oh, yes, I can help with that. What is the name of the ship?"
Navy rep: "The USS San Diego. Have any ideas?"
Herald: "Hmm… how about using the arms of San Diego?"
Navy rep: "Um, are we allowed to copy something like that?"
Herald: "Oh, um, no. I will throw a trident on it. It is a water-thingy, being a ship and all."
Navy rep: "Wow, you’re right, it is a water-thingy! It makes perfect sense now!"
Herald: "Oh, stop, I’m blushing. Tell ya what, I will even throw in some swords behind it."
At this point I would assume the Navy rep’s mouth dropped to the floor in astonishment.
As for the Swords I guess that they symbolises the cooperation between the Navy and the USMC contigent (Navy Officer’s Sword and Marine Officer’s Sword and Enlisted Personnels’ Cutlasses).
Marcus K;76617 wrote:
As for the Swords I guess that they symbolises the cooperation between the Navy and the USMC contigent (Navy Officer’s Sword and Marine Officer’s Sword and Enlisted Personnels’ Cutlasses).
Yes, this is a more or less standard thing with the arms of amphibious ships.
As for Alexander’s imaginary dialogue, I think he probably has the roles reversed. Remember that the Institute of Heraldry can impose a design on an Army unit, but the extent of its control over designs for the other services depends on what the other service—often meaning a representative of the unit itself—asks the heralds to do. There is no requirement that a ship’s arms/seal/badge/emblem even be heraldic at all; look at the insignia used by most aircraft carriers and submarines. In fact, I think the most heraldic device used by a present-day aircraft carrier is that of USS Theodore Roosevelt:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/CVN-71_insignia.png
Hey, at least it has the roses and motto from TR’s arms.
As for submarines, well USS Santa Fe is about as heraldic as it gets:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/images/ssn-763.gif
So without evidence to the contrary, I’d be inclined to guess that San Diego’s design was something that the ship’s precommissioning unit thought up and then had TIOH do some minor cleanup on, like the artwork and the swords, etc.
Imagine how excited Navy brass was when they discovered San Diego’s arms already included a ship on them. Score!!
Joseph McMillan;76620 wrote:
Yes, this is a more or less standard thing with the arms of amphibious ships.
Indeed they seems to be, but usualy only the two Officers’ Swords, but the USS Makin Island (LHD 8)
I had a call today from Chuck Mugno, the Director of TIOH, who saw this thread and wanted to verify that the situation for his institute when dealing with the other services is indeed advisory at most—assuming they ask. He’s thinking about registering as a user of our forums, so I’ll let him be the one to discuss how the San Diego design came about; I’m not sure how much he’d want to say publicly about the process. But I don’t think he’ll mind if I pass on that in the Navy the determination of whether to seek TIOH advice depends on which acquisition command is building the ship in question—the Naval Sea Systems Command (which controls everything but aircraft carriers) regularly works with TIOH, although the specific design is still in large measure up to the prospective commanding officer, precommissioning crew, and other interested parties, while the Naval Air Systems Command, which controls aircraft carriers and flying squadrons, generally doesn’t work with TIOH at all.
Apologies if already mentioned & I just missed it—
but there is a naval vessel (I thought a carrier, but not certain) named after John F. Kennedy, which used his Irish arms (& crest?—don’t recall) with a bunch of external additaments—wings etc.—the achievement is a bit busy but the arms themselves are good.
Michael F. McCartney;76640 wrote:
Apologies if already mentioned & I just missed it—
but there is a naval vessel (I thought a carrier, but not certain) named after John F. Kennedy, which used his Irish arms (& crest?—don’t recall) with a bunch of external additaments—wings etc.—the achievement is a bit busy but the arms themselves are good.
Was, not is; decommissioned in 2007.
But Michael is right, she did use a version of the Kennedy arms as the central element in her insignia. Which can be see at…ummm…the website of some outfit called the American Heraldry Society!
http://americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=President.Kennedy#toc2 (scroll down and see:
http://americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/President/kennedy-cv.gif
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