Burning the knot into the tree stump with the flaming sword above wins it for me. #1 is my choice!
Andemicael;83599 wrote:
I dare say it needs a bit of tweaking, as the big innovation of adding spears to indicate the number of children borne by the armiger presupposes differencing of arms, something I’m not as into these days as when I first devised it.
I didn’t realize the number of spears was meant to have meaning, I just love the design.
As to the new set of crests. The flaming sword is fine, and I realize it’s a mock-up, but It looks like the sword is in front of the flame to me. If I had any ability and was asked, I think I’d render the sword at an angle "stuck" in the stump and the flames follow more the lenght of the blade…. So simpletons like me could better understand it was a flaming sword rather than a flame from the stump engulfing the sword…
While I do like the aesthetics of it, my problem with the hands holding the knot is that there is something literal and three-dimensional (the hands) holding something representational and two-dimensional (the knot). Not that this couldn’t all be constructed in real life to go on top of a helmet, but I think crests are best that use "real" things. The flaming sword is good, too, but I still think the sword skewering the demon’s head and stuck in the stump is best. I realize I’m in the minority, but I’m okay with that. 
Naturally, I like the flaming sword, and the way you branded the stump. It covers all the bases, without getting too complicated.
Kenneth Mansfield;83623 wrote:
While I do like the aesthetics of it, my problem with the hands holding the knot is that there is something literal and three-dimensional (the hands) holding something representational and two-dimensional (the knot). Not that this couldn’t all be constructed in real life to go on top of a helmet, but I think crests are best that use "real" things. The flaming sword is good, too, but I still think the sword skewering the demon’s head and stuck in the stump is best. I realize I’m in the minority, but I’m okay with that.
Andemicael;83634 wrote:
This is an interesting point… wouldn’t the flaming sword be harder to construct? (how could you have it so that from every angle you see flames and a sword inside?)
The knot could be constructed like a simple slab, or even more literally like a bowen knot…
Okay, so maybe the flaming sword would be hard to construct, but I can still imagine it in my mind. I’m not suggesting that the knot can’t be constructed, just that it seems a little more allegorical than actual.
Okay! The family verdict is in:
[On a wreath Or and Vert] two moor’s arms grasping an angular bowen knot bendwise Cendrée
And I’m reworking the Ethiopic style. Helmets were used by mounted troops, and they resembled persian or arab ones, which solves the disembodied crest issue. Though I’m not sure they were issued, but rather captured as souvenirs for killing Danakil (Afar) tribesmen in battle (see image below). In that case I’m not sure they’re entirely appropriate.
I’ve used a clip art viking one for now, but it’s similar enough till I sort this out.
I’ve also explored some of the other unique trappings used in feudal Abyssinia. Some interesting stuff, including embroidered wraps (still worn today by grooms during traditional weddings.) There’s even a jousting tradition that continues to this day.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/NEW_HABESHA.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/ital10.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/ital7.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/ital9.jpg
Very cool.
Because the whole knot idea is that of an "iron" knot, I’m thinking it wouldn’t be so difficult if made from an appropriate metal. The guy wholse arms you have to cut off might complain though - <chuckle>
The use of different styles of helmet I think warrants a whole new debate. There is some extensive precedence as to the use of crests with "traditional" heraldic helms (European tournament helmets) and that is why we see that style used in heraldry and heraldic display. I have (regrettably) seen depictions of modern US pattern military helmets with crests added and now we see here what is described (I think) as an Ethiopic style helmet.
IMHO there is no record of either of these styles of helmet ever having had crests in real life. I would be grateful if someone would explain to me why it is felt that these helmets should be used in heraldry.
I am sure that someone will say that heraldry should not be frozen in any one point in time but isn’t that precisely what it is? We don’t use decorated shields in battles anymore so why would we want to add a crest to a modern military helmet?
This is a good question, and perhaps it does deserve its own topic. I’ll start by saying I really don’t know anything about placing crests on modern army helmets, which seems an odd comparison to make since it’s so obviously anachronistic, like putting modern electronics and motorcycles as charges and supporters for a shield. I think that’s clearly quite different than what’s going on here: adding a crest to a helm that would have been in use at the same time as the tilting helm.
Secondly, the ethiopic helm as pictured is quite general in design to others the north africa/south west asian region, even extending to the subcontinent. The basic design has analogues in Persia and the greater Islamic world (where it likely came from) and examples with crest-like decorations do exist.
http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1966.1.1359.jpg
http://www.esford.com/mughal helmet2.JPG
It’s not really that much of a stretch, is it?
Secondly (and more importantly) — I wonder how literal an armiger is really expected to be when it comes to crests and helms?
There’s a whole lot of precedence for abstraction and disregard for reality when it comes to crests, above all other elements of the achievement (save maybe wild, writhing mantlings.)
For example, how reasonable (or even physically possible) is it for large, unwieldy crests to be detached from the helm, perched neatly on their fabric torse, and displayed separately from the achievement, as they are throughout the UK?
And how many crests, especially from later "decadent" heraldic eras, with free-floating elements, huge dimensions, and numerous delicate parts, could ever even exist on top of a helmet, let alone be worn upright, to begin with?
http://www.quistorp.de/Quistorpia/WappenAchimQuistorp.gif
http://www.leibbrandt.com/leibbrandt_archive/wappen_coat_of_arms/wappen133.jpg
A blazonry quibble: do you really mean these to be the arms of a Moor, or of an Ethiopian? If the latter, I’d blazon them as the latter.
Thanks Joe, I suppose that would work just as well.
Is there a way you can split these last few posts off into a new thread? I’m interested in hearing people’s attitudes towards heraldic innovation in general.
On a personal note, my intention with this experimental (and still evolving) ethiopic depiction, from the beginning, has really been to treat it as an secondary emblazonment style, able to use a standard arms blazon.
Were my arms chosen to be displayed in a traditional western setting such as a library, church, or armorial roll, etc, I would likely go with a traditional display as being most culturally appropriate. In my house, among other heraldry enthusiasts, or for a variety of special applications, I have ample use for these ethiopic arms.
I’m curious what the society’s thoughts are on this sort of thing?
Andemicael;83658 wrote:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/NEW_HABESHA.jpg
I for one think this is quite wonderful. I am a fan of blending styles like this even if it isn’t historically accurate. It’s art, and quite refreshing.
Wow! I gotta say, your final product is simply stunning. I love the uniqueness of each piece. From your division line to the helmet to the mantling; it’s all quite beautiful. Nice job!
