Carl Alexander Roth;94988 wrote:

I see.  If you are saying that it is, in a way, a coat of arms unto itself, how then would one use it as such?

Section 4 ("The Application of Heraldry") in the society’s Guidelines for Heraldic Practice in the US lists a bunch of applications of heraldry. In all honesty, your symbol could be substituted in every instance.

But we’re here to encourage the use of HERALDRY! So I say keep on designing something if you like, and if it employs your letter symbol, so be it!

Claus K Berntsen;94972 wrote:

I would instead use canting arms, Roth is eminently suited to this! Why not something like "Azure, an eradicated treetrunk Or"?

Or perhaps Yggdrasil, as its three "roots" are one of it’s core characteristics…

As a reminder to all involved in this thread, actual design discussions are to be held in the members’ only section

kimon;94994 wrote:

As a reminder to all involved in this thread, actual design discussions are to be held in the members’ only section

As my application for membership has been accepted, could a moderator please move the thread?

Assuming that the thread has been moved to the Members section

Since your family originated in Saxony, it would seem appropriate (if you wish to do so) to look to that heraldic tradition as well as Swedish.

As to supporters, now that you have access to the Members topics, you might look at the very recent thread on Tenants and Supporters (or maybe vice-versa?) for a rather long and varied discussion of supporters—that will save us from the need (or temptation!) to repeat it all here.

The suggestions re: alternate uses of the R and arrow essentially amount to using it as a "badge"—i.e. an emblem separate from the arms themselves, which may or may not resemble the charge(s) in the arms.  Given the history, this seems like a really great idea.

But personally, if it were me (which of course it isn’t!) I would still be inclined to also somehow incorporate this historical family badge as an element in the arms themselves (i.e. the shield design), and/or in the crest.

The following was suggested to me by someone on the Heraldry Society Facebook group.  I am having trouble picturing this, opinions?

"Or, getting very radical, use the seal semy (semee). As in "Azure semy the letter R pierced by an arrow fesswise point to sinister Or." Now that would be not only unique but also very striking."

I’m not particularly keen on the design, but it might work. My fear would be that it would not reproduce well in small sizes. (Hmmmm. A challenge.)

Another variation, assuming that there are other charges, would be an orle of the R-arrow badges around the edge of the shield—less likely to visually interfere with (muddy) the other charge(s).

I would avoid using the pierced R badge as any element in the arms, personally. Not just because it’s a letter, but because I think it would look like the arms were covered or surmounted in some kind of logo. I think the semy of Rs would look especially strange and, yes, be hard to make out in low resolutions.

I think you should use an arrow as a prominent charge in the arms, but keep the R-arrow for the badge proper.

Carl Alexander Roth;94985 wrote:

I understand your point and appreciate it.  I suppose my strong desire to use the mark is that I want the primary charge to be as historically / heritage based as possible and not simply invent something that I find enjoyable or appropriate.  This desire probably stems from the hundereds of hours of ancestry research my father has been doing over the last few years and what he has shared with me.

Carl, may I ask if it is only you who wish to become armigerous or does your father and your siblings, if any, also wish to assume arms. I ask because if they are, you might want to take this into consideration in the design process.

Richard G.;95001 wrote:

Carl, may I ask if it is only you who wish to become armigerous or does your father and your siblings, if any, also wish to assume arms. I ask because if they are, you might want to take this into consideration in the design process.

I have been speaking to my father regularly about the design process.  It is my HOPE for the arms to become the basis for a standardized arms for our family.  He has only shown enthusiasm in seeing the finished project, though, and hasn’t really made any indication that he intends to use it for himself or for my half-brothers etc.  I have not had a chance to speak to his brother.

There was a point where I was considering using the arms of some of the noble/royal houses of Sweden that we are related to (Vasa, von Platen, Ankarcrona, Gyllenstierna, Bergenstråhle, Oxenstierna, De la Gardie, Bonde, Knorring, Leijonhufvud, Natt och Dag, amoung others).  He had some strong opinions about what houses should be included, but as I have since abandoned the idea (I am not in the direct male line of any of these and have no claim) he hasn’t really said much.

Carl Alexander Roth;95002 wrote:

I have been speaking to my father regularly about the design process.  It is my HOPE for the arms to become the basis for a standardized arms for our family.  He has only shown enthusiasm in seeing the finished project, though, and hasn’t really made any indication that he intends to use it for himself or for my half-brothers etc.  I have not had a chance to speak to his brother.

Perhaps it might be an idea to leave this option open in the design process? By that I mean individual arms for each family member based on a family design. For example, I descend from a family of Yorkshire nail makers so consequently I chose my shield to be charged with a semy of nails. My brother has the same design but with difference in the chief.

Returning to your family genealogy, I understand your ancestors arrived in Sweden in the early 1700’s. Is there a known reason for their emigration? Was there any particular skill or employment that passed through the family? I’m asking as this could give some ideas for suitable charges that might be considered.

Richard G.;95003 wrote:

Returning to your family genealogy, I understand your ancestors arrived in Sweden in the early 1700’s. Is there a known reason for their emigration? Was there any particular skill or employment that passed through the family? I’m asking as this could give some ideas for suitable charges that might be considered.

Benjamin Roth (Roht) was a blacksmith in the Electorate of Saxony when it was under the control of August II of Poland.  When August II was defeated by Carl XII of the Swedish Empire in 1702, he was replaced by Stanisław Leszczyński.  Carl XII left Poland in 1707 to fight Peter the Great of Russia bolstered by now-loyal Polish and “Saxon” troops.  We assume Benjamin was part of this group and ended up in Stockholm some time after Sweden was defeated by Russia that same year.  We know he is from “Saxony” because he built the railing for the “Stair of Carl XII” at Katarina Church in Södermalm, Stockholm.  The railing contains a long poem in Swedish and is signed “Benjamin Roht af Sachsen”.  It was also renovated by his (grandson?) Carl Roth in 1775.

Our family has a long history of blacksmiths and other types of metal workers.  I just so happen, coincidentally, to be an aviation structural mechanic in the US Navy and work with sheet metal of many kinds.

Carl Alexander Roth;94938 wrote:

An inescutcheon the arms of House of Roth (Azure, a capital letter R in Times New Roman bisected fesswise by an arrow to sinister Or)."

Joseph McMillan;94939 wrote:

...using an initial as principal charge is generally not considered good heraldry, and specifying the type font even less so….

Carl Alexander Roth;94950 wrote:

Also, I mentioned a specific font because the family seal was in a specific font.  I knew at the time this was also not in the greatest taste but that’s why I’m here seeking input : )

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/480316_10151089583225479_1679453813_n.jpg

Just a quick side note: That’s not Times New Roman.

Another thought:

You’re right to avoid any sort of marshaling to represent the various families you’re connected to. Not only because of the lack of male descent you mentioned, but because clustered shields just aren’t very practical.

Good heraldry usually employs few symbols to represent multiple meanings, as opposed to multiple symbols representing few meanings. If there is a symbol or color, or partition style, or ordinary that is common among the arms of the various families - you might consider incorporating that into your arms as well.

This way you honor your genealogy without overtly claiming rights to bear their arms… and you get away with a slick design.