I’m partial to the bear. Thanks again, Kenneth for all the emblazons! And hats of to Joshua as well.
Jesse, I sent you a link with a copy of a high quality form of the arms with the stars.
Alright, and I’ve also sent you a high quality version of this one if you’re interested.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/BrokenChainsX/Artform3.png
Kenneth Mansfield;82427 wrote:
Ursus americanus can be either black or brown which would be really confusing to have proper, but that’s irrelevant as I think this is supposed to be the now extinct California grizzly bear (Ursus californicus).
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Kenneth, one last possible idea for this one. I like the proper colors for everything but we lose the green/black/white color scheme. What about adding a chief of Vert fimbrated Sable. Maybe embattled?
Kenneth Mansfield;82427 wrote:
Ursus americanus can be either black or brown which would be really confusing to have proper, but that’s irrelevant as I think this is supposed to be the now extinct California grizzly bear (Ursus californicus).
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Let’s not get ourselves tangled in the niceties of the artwork at this stage of the design process. Blazon it as a bear passant sable if the client wants black, a bear passant proper if he wants brown. There’s no reason to specify the species.
While I agree we shouldn’t get tangled up in the details just yet, I don’t think using "proper" for a bear is a good idea. As it’s been pointed out there are multiple color variations on black bears. You have black, cinnamon, brown, blonde, and white (No, I do not mean albino). If you want it black, say black, if you want it brown, say brown, don’t say proper.
Kenneth Mansfield;82427 wrote:
Ursus americanus can be either black or brown which would be really confusing to have proper, but that’s irrelevant as I think this is supposed to be the now extinct California grizzly bear (Ursus californicus).
I don’t think the California Grizzly is extinct. It was on the endangered species list but has since been removed. That may just be grizzlies in general. Not sure if the CA grizzly is a specific sub-classification.
jcar;82442 wrote:
Kenneth, one last possible idea for this one. I like the proper colors for everything but we lose the green/black/white color scheme. What about adding a chief of Vert fimbrated Sable. Maybe embattled?
If you want to add a chief I would strongly recommend an overhaul. I’d change the bear to rampant for a better fit on the shield and move all the acorns to the chief (making them Argent or Or).
Joseph McMillan;82443 wrote:
Let’s not get ourselves tangled in the niceties of the artwork at this stage of the design process. Blazon it as a bear passant sable if the client wants black, a bear passant proper if he wants brown. There’s no reason to specify the species.
I do completely agree on this point.
jcar;82447 wrote:
Not sure if the CA grizzly is a specific sub-classification.
It is. You’ll notice the link, though it says "California_grizzly_bear", redirects to the general page on grizzly bears.
Kenneth Mansfield;82449 wrote:
If you want to add a chief I would strongly recommend an overhaul. I’d change the bear to rampant for a better fit on the shield and move all the acorns to the chief (making them Argent or Or).
Ok, can we try that with the acorns being Argent please?
Kenneth Mansfield;82450 wrote:
It is. You’ll notice the link, though it says "California_grizzly_bear", redirects to the general page on grizzly bears.
Ah yes. I found it on another site. Sadly, it became extinct in 1924.
jcar;82457 wrote:
Ok, can we try that with the acorns being Argent please?
Hmmm. That will require drawing. May have to wait until after Derby.
Kenneth Mansfield;82459 wrote:
Hmmm. That will require drawing. May have to wait until after Derby.
No worries then. I don’t want to create extra work. I think I’m just being nitpicky now.
I read throgh all of this last night & caught up to the most recent posts this morning. Skipping over the "arms for dead folk" arguments—I care, but it doesn’t appear to be central to your case at this point—a few general observations:
1) Wow!—what a wealth of possibilities. Whatever designs you don’t choose, will be a potential goldmine for others! As with some of our earlier design frenzies, one man’s "interesting, but not quite…" may be another’s "Eureka!—that’s just what I want."
(Our version of recycling—green heraldry!)
2) The bear between three oak sprigs, in any of several color combinations, struck me as a wonderful design. Some of the others were also interesting, but this one really grabbed me.
3) Going back to your three favorite colors and your California foothills origins—as long as you’re about ready for the refrigerator test, try the black bear & green oak sprigs on a gold field as well. While you would lose one of your three school colors, anyone who has spent any time in the Golden State should immediately grasp the local symbolism of green oaks and a black critter on a golden hillside.
4) Don’t get too hung up in nailing down the blazon at this point—leave a little room for artistic license.
Whether the acorns on the green sprigs are brown or green or black wouldn’t IMO be sufficient heraldic difference to create three distinct coats of arms— so don’t bother with it at this point any more than you might fuss over the color of the bear’s eyes.
At different times and for different purposes or settings, you might prefer artwork with greater or lesser detail—doesn’t really matter, at least at this stage. If you feel a need near the end of the process, you can always tie it down then.
4) The color of the bear, on the other hand, is something that IMO you should try to resolve as part of the fridge test—it’s the major central charge and black or brown would arguably create heraldically distinct designs (though it would IMO be a very close call!).
Assuming a white or gold field, IMO black is better from an heraldic standpoint, but if you want brown so be it. The symbolism should be essentially the same whichever way you choose; & there is more than sufficient latitude (artistic license) as to the shade of brown—something considerably darker than the bear on the state flag would make a better contrast, especially on gold, and thus better.
5) If you can, try to put the creation of yet more new designs in abeyance for now and let your eye and subconscious dwell on your favorites from the process so far. You can always restart if none of them make the grade, but the up-front mental activity of creating yet more options can impede the largely subconscious process at the heart of the fridge test.
Ditto what Micheal said, but I think the bear’s eyes should be blue.
:rofl:
